Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Open Discussions

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-27-2009, 07:45 PM   #1
yankeechick
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 17
Offline
Dit Da Jow

Hello,

Does anyone have detailed, credible experience with Dit Da Jow? Does it work, or is it one of those placebo effect items?

Any input is appreciated.

Thanks!
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2009, 08:38 PM   #2
lbb
Location: Massachusetts
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,059
United_States
Offline
Re: Dit Da Jow

Quote:
Antonia Williams wrote: View Post
Does anyone have detailed, credible experience with Dit Da Jow? Does it work, or is it one of those placebo effect items?!
I've seen a few different dit da jow recipes -- you can buy it premade at Chinese apothecaries, or you can make up your own. They all include herbs that are said to help heal trauma, sometimes stuff that's a topical analgesic, and also generally some things that are irritants (which increase blood flow). As to whether it "works", that depends on what formula you're using and what you expect it to do. It won't magically heal a fractured femur, but the formulas I've seen would typically help reduce swelling and bruising and improve the speed of healing of that sort of trauma at least somewhat.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2009, 05:11 PM   #3
Marc Abrams
Dojo: Aikido Arts of Shin Budo Kai/ Bedford Hills, New York
Location: New York
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,302
United_States
Offline
Re: Dit Da Jow

I use Kamwo's formulation from Tom Bisio who is also my acupuncturist! Stuff is much better than ice.

marc abrams
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2009, 05:21 PM   #4
yankeechick
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 17
Offline
Re: Dit Da Jow

Quote:
Marc Abrams wrote: View Post
I use Kamwo's formulation from Tom Bisio who is also my acupuncturist! Stuff is much better than ice.

marc abrams
How can I purchase it?
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2009, 05:46 PM   #5
Janet Rosen
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
Janet Rosen's Avatar
Location: Left Coast
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 4,257
Offline
Re: Dit Da Jow

google kamwo:
http://www.kamwo.com/mambo/

Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2009, 05:50 PM   #6
John Connolly
Dojo: NYC Icho Ryu
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 80
United_States
Offline
Re: Dit Da Jow

One of my dojo mates, Steve Sakahara, makes his own dit da jow, based on Tom Bisio's recipes. Everyone in my dojo has used it with success for pain mitigation, swelling, and stiffness from injuries. Read more here: http://ourbadbudo.blogspot.com/2009/...ad-people.html

  Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2009, 03:10 PM   #7
Steve Sakahara
Dojo: TNBBC - Icho Ryu/Seattle
Location: Lynnwood, WA
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 4
United_States
Offline
Re: Dit Da Jow

The DDJ we've been using is actually Neil's 15 yr. old concoction based on Ark Wong's recipe. Our stuff is only 6 months old - gallon glass jug, herbs from Kamwo, 100 proof vodka, store in cool dark place, shake daily.

I've had good experience with the DDJ in healing bruises and strains in less time than normal, about 20-30% faster than without. For bruises, they turn bright red with the old recipe, not so much with the new. Doesn't smell too bad like some of the other Chinese stuff.

I pulled a hamstring this summer and it started to swell as soon as I stopped moving. I immediately applied the DDJ and several more times that evening. Before bed, I layered on a paste of San Huang San to reduce swelling, wrapped my leg and kept it on overnight and most of the next day. After 2 days the swelling went down and I started applying tendon lotion. I was back working out 2 weeks later. Surprising results since I didn't apply any ice, and injuries take a lot longer to heal now.

Check out Tom Bisio's book, A Tooth from the Tiger's Mouth. Pretty good information if you keep an open mind.

YMMV

  Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2009, 04:41 PM   #8
Marc Abrams
Dojo: Aikido Arts of Shin Budo Kai/ Bedford Hills, New York
Location: New York
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,302
United_States
Offline
Re: Dit Da Jow

Quote:
Antonia Williams wrote: View Post
How can I purchase it?
http://www.kamwo.com/shop/home.php?cat=421

Marc Abrams
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2009, 04:42 PM   #9
Marc Abrams
Dojo: Aikido Arts of Shin Budo Kai/ Bedford Hills, New York
Location: New York
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,302
United_States
Offline
Re: Dit Da Jow

Quote:
John Connolly wrote: View Post
One of my dojo mates, Steve Sakahara, makes his own dit da jow, based on Tom Bisio's recipes. Everyone in my dojo has used it with success for pain mitigation, swelling, and stiffness from injuries. Read more here: http://ourbadbudo.blogspot.com/2009/...ad-people.html
Tom leaves out one particular ingredient from his book which is very dangerous if not used properly. Takes the liniment to the next level. The ingredients list from his book works very well without that ingredient.

Marc Abrams
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2009, 04:58 PM   #10
yankeechick
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 17
Offline
Re: Dit Da Jow

cool. already went on line and looked at it. will purchase it by the weekend...
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2010, 01:45 AM   #11
Steve Sakahara
Dojo: TNBBC - Icho Ryu/Seattle
Location: Lynnwood, WA
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 4
United_States
Offline
Re: Dit Da Jow

Quote:
Marc Abrams wrote: View Post
Tom leaves out one particular ingredient from his book which is very dangerous if not used properly. Takes the liniment to the next level. The ingredients list from his book works very well without that ingredient.
When I read Tom's book, I remember wondering if this was all he put in his personal batches.

Since the general purpose recipe works pretty well, it's easy to be curious as to how much better a more aggressive recipe would be in aiding the healing process.

Steve

  Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2010, 07:59 AM   #12
Marc Abrams
Dojo: Aikido Arts of Shin Budo Kai/ Bedford Hills, New York
Location: New York
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,302
United_States
Offline
Re: Dit Da Jow

Quote:
Steve Sakahara wrote: View Post
When I read Tom's book, I remember wondering if this was all he put in his personal batches.

Since the general purpose recipe works pretty well, it's easy to be curious as to how much better a more aggressive recipe would be in aiding the healing process.

Steve
Steve:

Tom Bisio left out that one ingredient solely for safety concerns. The misuse of that one left out ingredient could have resulted in some bad things happening. The formula that he lists in his book works well. The "secret" ingredient does make some slight difference, but not enough to have outweighed the concerns for people's safety.

Marc Abrams
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2010, 09:01 AM   #13
phitruong
Dojo: Charlotte Aikikai Agatsu Dojo
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,896
United_States
Offline
Re: Dit Da Jow

i got DDJ and SHS from Josh. you can contact him here http://www.wellspringacupuncture.com/index.htm
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2010, 09:04 AM   #14
lbb
Location: Massachusetts
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,059
United_States
Offline
Re: Dit Da Jow

I checked out that book on Amazon, and I'm going to get it. I use several of those patent formulas (I've been using Wu Yang plasters and their precursor, Yang Cheng plasters, for...jeez, 20 years now), and I'd like to know more about them. It looks like a really useful reference -- thanks for the tip!
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2010, 10:40 AM   #15
ChrisMoses
Dojo: TNBBC (Icho Ryu Aiki Budo), Shinto Ryu IaiBattojutsu
Location: Seattle, WA
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 910
United_States
Offline
Re: Dit Da Jow

Quote:
Phi Truong wrote: View Post
i got DDJ and SHS from Josh. you can contact him here http://www.wellspringacupuncture.com/index.htm
Josh is a great guy. I'm using his tendon lotion right now on my still recovering knee.

Chris Moses
TNBBC, "Putting the ME in MEdiocre!"
Shinto Ryu Iai Battojutsu
TNBBC Blog
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2010, 12:38 PM   #16
Thomas Campbell
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 407
Offline
Re: Dit Da Jow

Quote:
Steve Sakahara wrote: View Post
Our stuff is only 6 months old - gallon glass jug, herbs from Kamwo, 100 proof vodka, store in cool dark place, shake daily.
That sounds like something I'd drink after some of the exchanges here on the Aikiweb forums.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2010, 12:55 PM   #17
MM
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,996
United_States
Offline
Re: Dit Da Jow

Quote:
Christian Moses wrote: View Post
Josh is a great guy. I'm using his tendon lotion right now on my still recovering knee.
Yeah, I second that. Although I haven't tried his lotion. The next time I see him, I'll try to remember to ask him about it.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2010, 12:57 PM   #18
MM
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,996
United_States
Offline
Re: Dit Da Jow

Quote:
Thomas Campbell wrote: View Post
That sounds like something I'd drink after some of the exchanges here on the Aikiweb forums.
Is there anything you wouldn't drink?
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2010, 03:26 PM   #19
Steve Sakahara
Dojo: TNBBC - Icho Ryu/Seattle
Location: Lynnwood, WA
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 4
United_States
Offline
Re: Dit Da Jow

Quote:
Marc Abrams wrote: View Post
Tom Bisio left out that one ingredient solely for safety concerns.
Bad things are to be avoided. As is the rotgut vodka I used in our liniments.

Josh is a student of Tom Bisio. He tweaks his SHS a little differently from the book recipe and it's dynamite for reducing swelling.

I know TomC appreciates some of the finer spirits and so does Chris. Josh might lean more towards a fine tea. We'll use the good stuff and some tendon lotion to pry the secrets out of Mark on his next visit.

  Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2010, 03:58 PM   #20
Josh Lerner
 
Josh Lerner's Avatar
Location: Renton, WA
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 80
United_States
Offline
Re: Dit Da Jow

Quote:
Steve Sakahara wrote: View Post
Bad things are to be avoided. As is the rotgut vodka I used in our liniments.

Josh is a student of Tom Bisio. He tweaks his SHS a little differently from the book recipe and it's dynamite for reducing swelling.

I know TomC appreciates some of the finer spirits and so does Chris. Josh might lean more towards a fine tea. We'll use the good stuff and some tendon lotion to pry the secrets out of Mark on his next visit.
Hi guys,

I learned Tom and Frank's basic trauma medicine and tuina from them in weekend seminars, but I don't know if I've spent enough time with him to call myself his student. He and Frank have certainly been a major influence on my clinical practice, though. I do plan on continuing to study with them.

I've also just started working as a clinical supervisor at the Tuesday morning tuina clinic at the Seattle Institute of Oriental Medicine. All of their students learn Tom and Frank's Zhenggu Tuina, and the school has a clinic where the first-year students practice only tuina. It's a student clinic, so it's pretty inexpensive, and it's in the Roosevelt district near the Whole Foods, so it's easy to find.

My SHS is basically the same recipe as in the book, but since I ordered the herbs from Kamwo, I had the option of using a modified version of one of them - frying the rhubarb root in wine helps to bring out the circulation-enhancing effects and lessens the bowel-moving effects. Which shouldn't be an issue anyway if you aren't eating it.

You guys aren't eating it, right?

Right?



Josh
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2010, 05:08 PM   #21
Josh Lerner
 
Josh Lerner's Avatar
Location: Renton, WA
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 80
United_States
Offline
Re: Dit Da Jow

Quote:
Antonia Williams wrote: View Post
Hello,

Does anyone have detailed, credible experience with Dit Da Jow? Does it work, or is it one of those placebo effect items?

Any input is appreciated.

Thanks!
Hi Antonia,

Take this for what it's worth - a few weeks ago I got hit pretty hard in the leg, just above the knee. I got home, didn't see any bruising, but it was sore, so I spent about one minute rubbing some dit da jow on it to be safe, in an oval area where it hurt. I didn't rub that hard, just enough to spread it around. The next morning when I woke up, there was no bruising at all, except right next to the area where I rubbed. I could actually see the curved border of the oval where I had applied it, inside of which the skin looked normal, outside of which was a nice purplish bruise. So it either works really well, or I experienced some kind of Chinese medicine reverse stigmata.

In general, though, the results with correctly-administered trauma medicine are much less noticeable, usually along the lines of "Oh, it healed really quickly and wasn't so severe, so it must not have been that bad to begin with." I've actually caught myself thinking that, even with injuries I've seen or sustained (or, unfortunately, caused) that I knew should have been more severe.

Hope that helps,

Josh
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2010, 08:24 PM   #22
lbb
Location: Massachusetts
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,059
United_States
Offline
Re: Dit Da Jow

Josh, I've had that same kind of experience with Wu Yang plasters (a sharp line separating where the plaster was and where it wasn't, with swollen and bruised flesh on one side and unbruised flesh on the other). I'd say it works, yeah.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2010, 09:19 PM   #23
phitruong
Dojo: Charlotte Aikikai Agatsu Dojo
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,896
United_States
Offline
Re: Dit Da Jow

Quote:
Josh Lerner wrote: View Post

My SHS is basically the same recipe as in the book, but since I ordered the herbs from Kamwo, I had the option of using a modified version of one of them - frying the rhubarb root in wine helps to bring out the circulation-enhancing effects and lessens the bowel-moving effects. Which shouldn't be an issue anyway if you aren't eating it.

You guys aren't eating it, right?

Right?

Josh
you meant i shouldn't put it on cracker with cheese? i thought it was some kind of caviar
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

AikiWeb Sponsored Links - Place your Aikido link here for only $10!



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:52 AM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2016 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2016 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate