Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Training

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-18-2008, 01:04 PM   #1
ColeH-22
Dojo: Eight Winds Aikido Society Pearl Dojo
Location: Florence, MS
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 6
United_States
Offline
Exclamation Help> Overcoming Fear

Hi like the title of this thread says I need help with overcoming fear.
About a week ago I hurt my collar bone doing Standing Front Ukemi Rolls and since then my collar bone has gotten a little better and doesn't hurt as much, but when I try doing Standing Front Ukemi Rolls I either get scared and can't do it or I do it wrong and do more of like a side fall. Is there anyone who can help me or am I just doomed to fear that roll for the rest of my life.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2008, 01:44 PM   #2
cserrit
 
cserrit's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of San Diego
Location: San Diego
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 28
United_States
Offline
Re: Help> Overcoming Fear

Try rolling from your knees (not so far away from the mat) and build up your confidence by working your way back up to standing.



-C
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2008, 03:02 PM   #3
reisler
Dojo: Aikido Bozankan
Location: Calgary
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 27
Canada
Offline
Re: Help> Overcoming Fear

I have been there!!!
I did the same thing when I first started rolling, it was really depressing when everyone else made it look so easy.
Everyone kept telling me to make sure I was round............I WAS TRYING!! but after I hurt my shoulder, I was tense and then it just hurt more.

disclaimer:
I am still a newb so my suggestions are in no way scientific or borne from years of experience, but they worked for me.


I take ibuprofen 800 mg about 45 mins before class, (kills some of the pain and reduces inflamation) and make sure my weight is on my front leg and then kick my back leg as I go over. I also still use two hands to try to get rounder. Try not to go too slow, it makes it rougher.
Just don't quit trying, you will be able to roll again eventually. I could.

Last edited by reisler : 05-18-2008 at 03:07 PM.

Roberta
Aikido - a kinder, gentler can o' Whoop Ass.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2008, 03:54 PM   #4
Derek
 
Derek's Avatar
Dojo: Roswell Budokan, Kyushinkan (AWA)
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 35
United_States
Offline
Re: Help> Overcoming Fear

Wiley,

How are your back rolls? Its all the same. If your fear of rolling prevents any front rolls, try back rolls. When you roll back and touch with your toes, push off back to where you started. It will help get your body into the right shape with out the vertical drop.

You can also kneel on the mat and (we'll pick a side now) have your left knee slightly forward. Pass your left arm passed you left knee and then right knee so you left shoulder is on the mass and your left hand is behind your right foot. Now raise up you your right foot and push off to role on you left shoulder. Again, no drop. I do caution you that this is to teach your body how to be round, but is not a good way to role since you lose the support of the arm.

Finally. Get a pilates ball and give it a hug. Now, holding the ball, roll with the arm. The ball supports the arm (almost like an unbendable arm....) so you can roll without worrying about the arm collapsing.

And in closing, I'll have to quote Paul Muadd'b: Fear is a mindkiller. Fear is the little death.

Good luck!


Derek Duval
Yondan
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2008, 04:22 PM   #5
Mark Uttech
Dojo: Yoshin-ji Aikido of Marshall
Location: Wisconsin
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,211
Offline
Re: Help> Overcoming Fear

Quote:
Roberta Eisler wrote: View Post
I am still a newb so my suggestions are in no way scientific or borne from years of experience, but they worked for me.[/u][/i]

I take ibuprofen 800 mg about 45 mins before class, (kills some of the pain and reduces inflamation)
Onegaishimasu. Ibuprofen has been known to produce joint damage in the long run, so it is no magic formula to help with training. People need to know this, they also need to slow down and practice training in a slow and safe way. Everyone needs to adjust themself to the training. Developing an aikido body takes time and is a strong part of the practice.

In gassho,

Mark

- Right combination works wonders -
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2008, 05:34 PM   #6
SeiserL
 
SeiserL's Avatar
Dojo: Roswell Budokan, Kyushinkan Dojo, Aikido World Alliance
Location: Roswell, GA USA
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,670
United_States
Offline
Re: Help> Overcoming Fear

Osu,

Some great advice here on the physical technical part of getting back to it.

I, as usual, focus on the head.

First, your fear may simply be a way of saying you are not ready yet or to train carefully, it has a positive intent.

Secondly, to get beyond the fear, you have to get beyond the negative fantasy in your head that your body is responding to. Think, focus, on what you do want (rolling like a ball), and "let" your body follow that.

Relax, breathe, and enjoy yourself.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2008, 06:52 PM   #7
ficklampa
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 10
Sweden
Offline
Re: Help> Overcoming Fear

i would say.
start from seiza and go reeeal slow.
i mean really really slow.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2008, 07:16 PM   #8
ColeH-22
Dojo: Eight Winds Aikido Society Pearl Dojo
Location: Florence, MS
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 6
United_States
Offline
Re: Help> Overcoming Fear

I do just fine rolling from a kneeling postion, but when I go to do it from a standing position I either freeze up or I get so stiff I do it completely wrong. Also they have me on some medications that work on the pain and inflammation of my collar bone, but even with them it still hurts just a little. Oh yeah I should also point out that I am 6'5" and I weigh about 310 so it is kind of hard to become really flexible and become like a ball.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2008, 10:29 PM   #9
Lauren Walsh
 
Lauren Walsh's Avatar
Dojo: Perth
Location: Western Australia
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 8
Australia
Offline
Re: Help> Overcoming Fear

Hi Wiley,

Late last year I hurt my right shoulder taking a roll from kote gaeshi (seperated the joint and suffered a torn ligament as a result). It was relatively serious - I couldn't lift my arm, couldn't lift any weight (not quite sure how I managed to get dressed or drive!!)
I stopped work and physical training for two weeks which was probably too short a time. I only breakfalled and rolled on my left side for a couple of more weeks. When I did start on my right side I developed a habit of rolling "square". It wasn't a concious thing, my body just seemed to do it habitually to compensate for and protect my shoulder. I had to then actively try to stop that habit which wasn't easy because it had become so instinctive.

The best thing I can suggest is to avoid rolling or falling on your bad side until there is absolutely no pain. If there is pain, then you are not fully healed and you are setting yourself up for re-injury (especially if your body is somewhat tense due to the fear and apprehension of rolling).

As for the fear factor, it's completely natural. It only takes one bad experience or injury to trigger ongoing fear, because we start to associate a particular exercise or activity with an unpleasant consequence. I am still a little apprehensive when taking ukemi from kote gaeshi after my injury, but mostly I try not to think about the negative. I think it just comes down to being able to control our mind and focus on what we would like to acheive rather than "EEEK! THIS COULD REALLY HURT!!" Take things slow. Allow yourself to fully heal. Fear is a good because it reminds us that we are mortal and keeps us cautious, but try not to be restricted by it. It is an obstacle of the mind, that's all. Have faith in your ability, be determined...and take your time.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2008, 02:43 AM   #10
Pauliina Lievonen
 
Pauliina Lievonen's Avatar
Dojo: Jiki Shin Kan Utrecht
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 559
Netherlands
Offline
Re: Help> Overcoming Fear

Quote:
Lauren Walsh wrote: View Post
The best thing I can suggest is to avoid rolling or falling on your bad side until there is absolutely no pain. If there is pain, then you are not fully healed and you are setting yourself up for re-injury (especially if your body is somewhat tense due to the fear and apprehension of rolling).
Very good point and I agree!

Leave the rolling for the time being, let your collarbone heal properly, and after that it might be that it will come easier.

kvaak
Pauliina
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2008, 01:09 PM   #11
reisler
Dojo: Aikido Bozankan
Location: Calgary
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 27
Canada
Offline
Re: Help> Overcoming Fear

Quote:
Mark Uttech wrote: View Post
Onegaishimasu. Ibuprofen has been known to produce joint damage in the long run, so it is no magic formula to help with training. People need to know this, they also need to slow down and practice training in a slow and safe way. Everyone needs to adjust themself to the training. Developing an aikido body takes time and is a strong part of the practice.

In gassho,

Mark
Hi all,
Just to clarify..... I don't take IB all the time, but it did help when my shoulder was injured. When I wasn't in so much pain, I could work on my rolling without being afraid and then when I was rolling better, it didn't hurt so much. (I am still a nube so I know nothing but am working on it)

Last edited by reisler : 05-20-2008 at 01:11 PM.

Roberta
Aikido - a kinder, gentler can o' Whoop Ass.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2008, 09:53 PM   #12
Walter Martindale
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
Location: Cambridge, ON
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 646
Canada
Offline
Re: Help> Overcoming Fear

Quote:
Wiley Hardwick wrote: View Post
I do just fine rolling from a kneeling postion, but when I go to do it from a standing position I either freeze up or I get so stiff I do it completely wrong. Also they have me on some medications that work on the pain and inflammation of my collar bone, but even with them it still hurts just a little. Oh yeah I should also point out that I am 6'5" and I weigh about 310 so it is kind of hard to become really flexible and become like a ball.
I guess it depends on how long you've been doing this - seems you're quite new. See if you can practice kneeling ukemi (forward and backwards) at home, on the lawn, on the mats before practice for a few minutes to start with and work up to 10. Start also to do back/side ukemi from standing. At first, only go to the back and rock back to the feet - when you get more comfortable at doing this diagonally across your back (from, say L hip to R shoulder) continue this on to a full back roll. Eventually work to pushing your way back to standing from the back roll. By this time you should probably feel safer or more confident about attempting some forward from standing, but also enlist the help of a more senior student...

I know heaps of people who are 6'5" (not in Aikido - I work at the national rowing federation here in the deeeeeep south), but they don't weigh as much. (we have a couple of 6'7" 230 scullers who can crank out 2000 m on a Concept 2 rowing machine in less than 5:45 - if you can do that, I'll suggest you contact someone named Mike Teti, about the US team for the 2012 Olympics in rowing). With time, practice, and the "push away" (from the table) exercise, your weight could come to the 250 range if you're relatively muscular, or less if you're not very muscular. Probably in a year or so you'll wonder what caused you the worry.
I apologise if I've assumed anything about your body composition, but it may also pay to spend some time doing push-ups, weights in general, abdominal/core work over and above the training you do in Aikido. There are "rubber band" and weights exercises you can do to rehabilitate your shoulder/rotator cuff so that the whole structure is more resistant to injury, also - just about any fitness club should be able to show you those, or you can hop into Barnes and Noble (or similar) and scan through books on strength training. Another GREAT exercise is swimming - no shin splints, but your shoulder will need to heal before you do that.
Hope you get over the fear soon - a well executed roll from a big guy is a good thing to see.

Oh.. The pain (leaking through the medication) is probably a sign that you need to spend some time healing rather than repeatedly re-injuring.
Cheers,
Walter
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

Seminar with Frank Doran, Shihan - Aug. 8-10, 2014 at Sunset Cliff's Aikido, near San Diego's finest beaches



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
fear of ukemi marky musashi General 39 05-10-2008 10:03 AM
Mechanics of mushin Ketsan Spiritual 17 08-04-2007 12:21 PM
Fear in Aikido Fred Little General 25 09-13-2006 12:27 PM
The role of fear Alec Corper General 15 06-25-2003 03:05 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:21 AM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate