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Old 05-14-2008, 01:56 AM   #1
dalen7
 
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Making Kote Gaeshi Work - With Resistance

Kote Gaeshi was one of my favorite moves as it was one of the moves that seemed most practical and actually effective.

I had the whole deal down on how to twist/tork the wrist to make the uke go down.

Now I am about to test for my 6th & 5th kyu (make up for a test back in Dec. I didnt take) and Im practicing with other guys who will take their 5th kyu test...

What is interesting is in the past 2 sessions, 2 of the dudes have actively tried to resist kote gaeshi. Technically speaking Sensei would not have this, but it seems they think they are being 'cute' in showing they can resist the method - (to which I could pop them in the nose and show that their new found 'technique' doenst mean much in a real fight) The point is that we are supposed to be at the point at getting familar and fluid with the technique.

And if they are at the level where they want to step it up a notch perhaps they should show how to make it work against resistance.
The fact is the average person wont know what your about to do...(plus so many factors would be against what they are doing...like punching them in the nose or hitting their hand to loosen up.) it even took them months to figure out to actively fight against kote Gaeshi. I have always went with it, as there is to much danger and getting your wrist dislocated - or the feeling that it will be.

So my point is simple.
When you are going for kotegaeshi, and someones hand is stiff as a board, and the guy is stronger than you...how do you 'break' the stiffness to get the bend needed for kote gaeshi?
Is there a pressure point?

I suppose in real life you would hit it - but in real life he wouldnt be waiting for kotegaeshi...it would be tight, but not a pure resistance.

Anyway

Peace

dalen

Last edited by dalen7 : 05-14-2008 at 01:59 AM.
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Old 05-14-2008, 02:27 AM   #2
dalen7
 
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Re: Making Kote Gaeshi Work - With Resistance

I wanted to add for clarification that its not the full body that is resisting...its only the hand being stiff.

See, it never really occured to me, as the hand is already kind of tense to begin with, and as the body moves the tork happens and thus its to much pain to resist.

But these two dudes are going into it, following the movement - but keeping their hands tight so as to avoid the proper motion for the tork in the hand...which is pointless as that is what takes them down to begin with. (i.e. going down as to avoid the pain of resistance to the hand/wrist tork.)

I suppose if I somehow did something different with my move as they spin around with me...I could get them to loosen the hand.
(But that would only be effective in ura.)

Here is the real problem, and I wish I could explain it to them properly. (My Hungarian is not good enough and Sensei already tried to tell the group, not sure if they were even there when he mentioned it though.) And that is simply they think that they are doing something cool by resisiting...but Im not going at full speed of full power.

So they think they have a solution when they are just messing with practice. If we both went for it someone would get hurt...guess this is how it is sometimes in the beginning phases...some people try to run before they can walk.

But regardless, if there is a pressure point I can loosen them up with that would be cool. (We used to have some senior students that practiced this, but they went on to do their own thing - they got tired of the same old stuff it seems.)

I have to admit, I just thought kote gaeshi worked...but now Im a bit disappointed. Again, I know that this is an awkward set up...as they know the move about to be done...and Im not trying to do things with force to hurt them...so Im trying to keep that in mind not to be discouraged.

Hope this makes some sense.

Peace

Dalen

- so in short, its awkward to see them on the floor doing ukemi, whenever what was supposed to put them there, the wrist tork...didnt work. Its like - what was the point of the whole exercise, I couldnt even break his wrist lock in order to apply pressure to tork the wrist.

Last edited by dalen7 : 05-14-2008 at 02:29 AM.
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Old 05-14-2008, 02:50 AM   #3
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Re: Making Kote Gaeshi Work - With Resistance

How does your school do kotegaeshi, breaking the wrist sideways with the thumbs on the backside of the hand or do you put your fingers in the same direction as ukes hand and roll his fingers in to the weak spot slightly behind his elbow? I haven´t found anyone that can resist the "roll-method" as long as you get the correct position and disruption of their balance so that kotegaeshi is an option. And getting the balance break and correct position is much more difficult (at least for me) than the "wrist twist".

Quote:
Dalen Johnson wrote: View Post
When you are going for kotegaeshi, and someones hand is stiff as a board, and the guy is stronger than you...how do you 'break' the stiffness to get the bend needed for kote gaeshi?
Is there a pressure point?

Last edited by grondahl : 05-14-2008 at 02:59 AM.
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Old 05-14-2008, 02:58 AM   #4
Dieter Haffner
 
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Re: Making Kote Gaeshi Work - With Resistance

Aaah ... the good old 'OM(F)G-My-Favorite-Technique-Does-Not-Work-Anymore'. We all have that feeling once in a while, and more often then we would like.
I have a hate-love relationship with iriminage (notice that the hate is in front of the love).
You start to get the hang of some technique ... fall in love with it ... and then evil sensei adds something more to it and you feel you want to cry like a little baby that got his lollypop taken away from him after the first lick.

Getting familiar and fluid with a technique for a 5th kyu examen does not mean it needs to be effective. Sensei only wants to see if you know what technique goes with what name and if you know where you need to place your feet and hands. At least I have the feeling that that is required in my dojo.

Although you might be able to make a technique work by hitting someone in the nose, you are only masking a poor technique. There are other ways to get/keep kuzushi, that's what we need to practise.
And did I mention that atemi is very important?

Now the kotegaeshi problem. I once had to practise with an uke that had wrist problems, so I could not crank the wrists to make the technique work. I had to unbalance him by using the lower upper arm, just above the wrist. After a bit of searching I had it figured out. And now I always do kotegaeshi as if uke has wrist problems, the wrist cranking is a little extra I sometimes put in there.
So Dalen, perhaps you can try to make kotegaeshi work by grabbing above the wrist and without the cranking. If sensei allows it offcourse, always do what sensei says (or shows ) first.

Btw: with 'you' I dont me you, Dalen, but the general aikidoka. I hope you (Dalen ) got something out of my rambling.
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Old 05-14-2008, 03:32 AM   #5
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Re: Making Kote Gaeshi Work - With Resistance

Insead of focusing on Ukes wrist and "turning it over" Think of the arm as a fulcrum starting with the elbow. If you gently press down and out on his inner elbow with your none wristing grabbing hand as you turn Tenkan into KG while gently twisting the wrist in and up towards you keeping everything in your center No one with resistance can defend against the elbow pressure successfully. Call it an inner elbow Atemi if you like.. You can then "run" your none wrist grabbing hand down his lower arm as you execute KG in Omote or Ura to finish at the wrist...

In this clip Notice very carefully Nishio Shihan's brushing the elbow and inner arm of Uke into KG. As a bonus notice how the foot and hand work for Bokken and Jo are the same as empty hand...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfXlM...eature=related

In this clip You see how Stefan Stenudd a regular poster here interprets KG. He's had extensive experiance with Nishio Shihan Aikido and if you look carefully you'll see him making contact with and brushing the elbow washing his hand down Ukes Arm into KG.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWwsz...eature=related

I personally really focus a little Atemi at the elbow specifically because there is a pressure point there which comes in very handy when you get a big ol galoot of resistance from an UKE like me...LOL So my movement is a bit different but hopefully when your UKE does the big old stiff arm...You'll handle it ok.

Good Luck and now its time to go back to bed.

William Hazen
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Old 05-14-2008, 03:36 AM   #6
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Re: Making Kote Gaeshi Work - With Resistance

Quote:
Peter Gröndahl wrote: View Post
How does your school do kotegaeshi, .
- grab wrist, and take fingers and push hand at angle.
So I suppose the second method.

It always worked...but instead of the usual tension you have, there was an active resistance in the hand to move against the roll...it was weird indeed as it always seemed to work before.

(Even on this guy until he started doing this.)

Thanks for the advice, Im taking all this in and still pondering.
Maybe I will try to shoot sensei and email and ask him to demonstrate this - or at least to re-address how 5th kyus are to go about in practice. (I say email as I need translation - my Hungarian language skills arent the best.)

Peace

dAlen
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Old 05-14-2008, 03:46 AM   #7
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Re: Making Kote Gaeshi Work - With Resistance

Quote:
Dieter Haffner wrote: View Post
So Dalen, perhaps you can try to make kotegaeshi work by grabbing above the wrist and without the cranking. If sensei allows it offcourse, always do what sensei says (or shows ) first.

Btw: with 'you' I dont me you, Dalen, but the general aikidoka. I hope you (Dalen ) got something out of my rambling.
- about the rules...
technically speaking Sensei has addressed the issue of lower ranks needing to do the technique properly, without resisting at this stage. (I mean stubborn resistance, we do have normal tension)
For one you dont get a proper perspective...the guy thinks his resistance works...but thats because he knows what Im doing...plus Im not applying force.

problem is I dont think these guys heard sensei when he mentioned it months back...dont know they had even started training yet.

Regardless,
What your saying about getting them off balance with grabbing by the wrist has caught my attention.

Technically speaking you grab by the wrist before you 'crank' with the other hand? Right? So Im trying to understand exactly where you are coming from.

Is this more of a grab the wrist and a quick move downward?

It seems the main problem is they are using force to actively resist the technique- and Im going through the motion...yes with some force, but very controlled as not to hurt anyone with the twisting of the wrist. (but not enough force to overcome their force)

If I met them with the same amount of energy they had there would be serious risk for injury at this stage...and this is why Sensei doesnt want us trying to go all out - to keep it controlled. - again they dont seem to get it.

So as I do this, Im trying to get the hand to crank without going full out...which would end up getting them hurt and then I would be the one at fault as it were - because of their lack of cooperation and my energy trying to meet theres.

Not sure how clear this is in writing...trying to spell it out to give as clear of picture as to what is happening.

The point, I suppose would be if indeed this technique would work against someone who, as you put it, has wrist problems - i.e., it doesnt want to bend because they are resisting - without hurting them from too much force.

Peace

dAlen

Last edited by dalen7 : 05-14-2008 at 03:56 AM.
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Old 05-14-2008, 03:54 AM   #8
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Re: Making Kote Gaeshi Work - With Resistance

Well I found this You Tube video of Shioda Shihan and he shows the internal power of Aikido very well, and notice how he uses Uke's elbow pressure points as "tools" LOL

Enjoy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIowy...eature=related

Now I am really going back to bed. LOL

William Hazen
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Old 05-14-2008, 04:06 AM   #9
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Re: Making Kote Gaeshi Work - With Resistance

Quote:
William Hazen wrote: View Post
Well I found this You Tube video of Shioda Shihan and he shows the internal power of Aikido very well, and notice how he uses Uke's elbow pressure points as "tools" LOL

Enjoy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIowy...eature=related

Now I am really going back to bed. LOL

William Hazen
My only question about elbow pressure is that wouldnt this be only for ura? Your really couldnt do it in omote could you?

You have some things for me to think about for sure, thanks.
I need to go check out the videos...they will probably answer some of my questions.

Peace

dAlen

- I re-read your post...and got where your coming from.
So basically your grabbing up by the elbow with one hand - pushing down and towards yourself - and then you begin to crank the wrist, and as you do you slide the hand upward?

I suppose on ura, there could be a way to lock the elbow as you are turning around...seems I recall months ago a 3rd kyu showing me this...I could never get the lock to work. (Im just now getting the locks and twist in shihonage to work. (well, I had a 5 months break, and we practice twice a weak, not always covering the same thing...so it takes longer to get past just the 'normal' movements of say shionage, to see what could make it work...but as soon as I say that, something will come along like with what happened with kotegaeshi here, which will challenge me again...arggghhh. :lol:

Peace

dAlen

Last edited by dalen7 : 05-14-2008 at 04:20 AM.
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Old 05-14-2008, 04:23 AM   #10
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Re: Making Kote Gaeshi Work - With Resistance

I wanted to thank everyone who replied...you have given me something to contemplate and practice.

Peace

dAlen
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Old 05-14-2008, 06:22 AM   #11
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Re: Making Kote Gaeshi Work - With Resistance

We've done some resistance on the old kote gaishi.

I find that resistance is effective when nage attempts to do the technique on the wrist using his / her hands. If you try to do the wrist turn with the intention of taking their centre by moving your whole body then KG comes on like a daemon. But add in some unbendable arm from a dan level guy and it's a whole different matter!

In practice this can mean to hold their hand close to your belly (in a KG style) and turn your whole body in the direction (usually away form uke) you want to apply the KG.

peace and love

Jo
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Old 05-14-2008, 06:45 AM   #12
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Re: Making Kote Gaeshi Work - With Resistance

Quote:
Jo Duncan wrote: View Post
We've done some resistance on the old kote gaishi.

I find that resistance is effective when nage attempts to do the technique on the wrist using his / her hands. If you try to do the wrist turn with the intention of taking their centre by moving your whole body then KG comes on like a daemon.

peace and love

Jo
You know - I have a feeling, that although I am moving my body...I am not keeping center.
I think Im still at the stage where Im happy to remember the steps and I need to focus on maintaining a center stance throughout.

At the begining I was horrible at this...my arms wanted to work alone...and your right, even though my body moves...my mind has it set that its my hands that are folding the ukes hands...

One comment that I know has been told to me time and again it would seem, is that Im too 'stiff' - 'tense' in my movements.
My body tenses up to get ready to 'punch' (best way to describe it - well maybe 'fight' would be a better description.

Again, this comes with time, I suppose and reflects (hopefully) in each belt level.

There is still the part of cooperation on ukes part - if they are just being plain stubborn and you do everything with a center movement, it might 'shake' them up and they might take offense. (i.e., think your being to rough, but yet discount the fact there not helping out in the overall scheme of what is happening.)

Aikido is very interesting in that you are depedning - working with others - who have a different take on how they want to do something.

Tyically sensei can track this down...but sometimes it gets past by, and again with the language barrier (limited knoweldge of each others language) Aikido can be a real challenge.

Anyway...here is hoping my feet and hands and body start working as one unit and not independent of each other.

Peace

dAlen
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Old 05-14-2008, 07:27 AM   #13
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Re: Making Kote Gaeshi Work - With Resistance

Quote:
Dalen Johnson wrote: View Post
...snip...

Aikido can be a real challenge.

<snip>
Peace
dAlen
There's an understatement!!


Gambatte!

This stuff is bloody hard, yet so easy at the same time. When i were 5th kyu (probably like most people) i was happy when i remembered that kote gaishi was "that wrist twisty out one".
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Old 05-14-2008, 07:35 AM   #14
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Re: Making Kote Gaeshi Work - With Resistance

I just came across an article, doing a google search, that specifically deals with the whole issue of uke tensing his wrist to prevent take down.

A guy by the name of Christ Tozer quoted 'O' Sensei and went on in about 4 more paragraphs to explain that how with little extra effort that you should still be able to take down someone tensing.

Some aspects of anatomy and muscles how they work were pointed out in 'proving' the theory...it seems 'sound' in idea, but as pointed out you have to have your movements co-ordinated.

This includes the timing of the movement of your hip to your hand...which at this time I still rely heavily on my hand to move hand into wrist lock.

I would post from the thread here, but Im not sure the rules about giving links to other message boards as well as how much is permitted in quotes - (i.e. whole thing as long as name is included, etc.)

It really goes straight to the heart of the issue, and again brings up an aspect/technique that a user here pointed out...which I was unfamilar with.

Particularly the question was posed if I used my thumb or rolled with my fingers.

I usually roll with the fingers, but apparently 'O' Sensei was recommending to not grab the wrist, per say, but to grab with your thumb under the pinky and ring finger to get control over the wrist.
The movement would be like a cutting motion down - and as you turn your right and would turn the hand pushing down as well...with ukes hand and your hands lining up at your center.

Now all I need to do is get this guy to train with me more...he is kind of stand offish and trains selectively...again, I suppose it has to do with the language bit...who knows.

Peace

dAlen

- The info came from an older article from 2000, Chris Tozer - again, Im not familiar with the policy of reposting articles, etc. thats why I didnt.

Last edited by dalen7 : 05-14-2008 at 07:46 AM.
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Old 05-14-2008, 07:51 AM   #15
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Re: Making Kote Gaeshi Work - With Resistance

I will add to the above post...

While grabbing the hand, by placing your thumb on the base of the ukes ring and pinky finger might work for what Im looking for - i.e., the stubborn uke trying to prove something...I would think in a real situation, its easier to grab the wrist...also in a real situation the uke will not be predisposed to having his wrist already prepped in locked up.

So its a win win scenario - a technique that suits each purpose.

I suppose that is what aikido is all about - making it work for you, and flowing...not being stuck with one idea.

Peace

dAlen
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Old 05-14-2008, 07:52 AM   #16
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Close to the center

Quote:
Dalen Johnson wrote: View Post
When you are going for kotegaeshi, and someones hand is stiff as a board, and the guy is stronger than you...how do you 'break' the stiffness to get the bend needed for kote gaeshi?
Much has already been said. When people resist, there are two things that I regard as particularly important:
1 Extend uke's arm forward, before making the kotegaeshi twist. Like mentioned earlier: tori's movement is from uke's elbow toward the wrist, and pushing on in that direction.
2 Keep uke's hand right in front of your center, and use your whole body in the twist. When uke is very strong, you need to keep the hand very close to your center, maybe even hold it against your belly.

Also pay attention to how you grip uke's wrist. Make that grip a squeeze to sligthly separate uke's hand from the underarm. That will weaken uke's resistance power significantly.

A completely different solution is to get things going, making uke stumble forward, and then do the kotegaeshi more like a kokyunage than a wrist twist.

Stefan Stenudd
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Old 05-14-2008, 08:06 AM   #17
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Re: Close to the center

Quote:
Stefan Stenudd wrote: View Post
1 Extend uke's arm forward, before making the kotegaeshi twist. Like mentioned earlier: tori's movement is from uke's elbow toward the wrist, and pushing on in that direction.
2 Keep uke's hand right in front of your center, and use your whole body in the twist. When uke is very strong, you need to keep the hand very close to your center, maybe even hold it against your belly.
Point one is definitely something I need to practice more with all my moves...which is to focus, as I move, on how to take Ukes balance by over extending their reach, twisting an arm/wrist, etc....and not just 'walk' through the movements.

I suppose a lot for me is just trying to memorize what moves are what. Now that Im getting the moves 'down' (well the basic ones) I can focus more on unbalancing uke and keeping center.

Thanks for the post..

All of the post have been welcomed and enlightening... given me a lot to think about. Again, the whole experience taught me that there are layers to Aikido...(stating the obvious here, but I meant more than what I initially anticipated...) suppose just like real life.

Peace

dAlen
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Old 05-14-2008, 08:52 AM   #18
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Re: Making Kote Gaeshi Work - With Resistance

Quote:
Dalen Johnson wrote: View Post
When you are going for kotegaeshi, and someones hand is stiff as a board, and the guy is stronger than you...how do you 'break' the stiffness to get the bend needed for kote gaeshi?
Hmm... When I encounter arm resistance of that sort in kotegaeshi, I find it's much easier to just change the technique, perhaps to something like rokkyo (hijikime osae, wakigatame).

-- Jun

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Old 05-14-2008, 09:05 AM   #19
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Re: Making Kote Gaeshi Work - With Resistance

Quote:
Jun Akiyama wrote: View Post
Hmm... When I encounter arm resistance of that sort in kotegaeshi, I find it's much easier to just change the technique, perhaps to something like rokkyo (hijikime osae, wakigatame).

-- Jun
Sometimes the most logical solution is right in front of us - thanks.
Key is adaptation for sure.

Peace

dAlen

edit to add:
...but I have no clue what any of the moves you mentioned are.
Everything we do in 6th/5th kyu is primarily Ai Hanmi/Gyaku Hami with some shomen uchi, Kata Tori, & Suwari waza added in the mix. (with the typical: Shionage, Iriminage, Uchikaiten Nage, Kotegaeshi, Kokyu-ho, Udemkima nage - and of course ikkyo, nikkyo, sankyo.)

It will be nice to expand my current knowledge base beyond where it currently is...
But step-by-step, hopefully I can get my foundations rooted in the above first.

It has been helpful to have this forum to come to in order to post questions.
(particularly in light of the fact Im learning Aikido in a foreign language Im not fluent in...)

edit again:
Looked up Rokkyo - pretty cool.

Last edited by dalen7 : 05-14-2008 at 09:19 AM.
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Old 05-14-2008, 09:11 AM   #20
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: Making Kote Gaeshi Work - With Resistance

In my experience, people can stiff their wrist when they are balanced. If they're busy regaining balance they usually can't put much strenght in their wrist.

Anyway, there are a pair of clips of Saito H. performing kotegaeshi. May be you find some useful there.

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=1DOhGmysZyo
http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=kllguJOIVRk

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Old 05-14-2008, 09:17 AM   #21
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Changing

Quote:
Jun Akiyama wrote: View Post
When I encounter arm resistance of that sort in kotegaeshi, I find it's much easier to just change the technique, perhaps to something like rokkyo (hijikime osae, wakigatame).
True, that's a swift solution, but not necessarily the one that teaches the most. Some resistance problems are better to work on.
But if uke resists with great force exactly the technique you are supposed to do, then changing quickly to another technique is the aiki way to handle it.
One has to do it carefully, though, because uke will be way out of balance and probably not able to control his or her ukemi properly.

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Old 05-14-2008, 09:27 AM   #22
dalen7
 
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Dojo: Karcag Aikido Club
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Re: Making Kote Gaeshi Work - With Resistance

Quote:
Demetrio Cereijo wrote: View Post
In my experience, people can stiff their wrist when they are balanced. If they're busy regaining balance they usually can't put much strenght in their wrist.
Your right...with this one guy I was relying on just bending his wrist and not so much on taking his balance - which I suppose would be a wise practice with each aikido move?

One problem I have is that Im trying to be careful with the uke.
Like yesterday I went to do Kotegaeshi ura.
As I spin around, pulling ukes arm down to take balance - the uke decided to play around and 'escape' from the technique. (again this is not the norm, but sometimes they 'horse play' - of course its not when sensei is looking. I know, it sounds like a kindergarten the way Im describing it.)

But again, he was able to get out of the move, as when I do kotegaeshi ura I try to be careful as not to mess someones wrist up.

I know from experience when your going fast in one direction and then nage turns around rips your wrist in the opposite direction...if your not ready - it hurts.

So some of the problems are stemming from the lower grade belts 'horsing around' and not understanding why the rules of the dojo are there.

Anyway...great comments from everyone.

Peace

dAlen

Last edited by dalen7 : 05-14-2008 at 09:29 AM.
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Old 05-14-2008, 09:34 AM   #23
dragonteeth
Dojo: Elkton Ki-Aikido
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Re: Making Kote Gaeshi Work - With Resistance

Wow - does your uke have any clue how easy it can be to get hurt if they don't know what they're doing?
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Old 05-14-2008, 09:43 AM   #24
dalen7
 
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Re: Making Kote Gaeshi Work - With Resistance

Quote:
Lori Snidow wrote: View Post
Wow - does your uke have any clue how easy it can be to get hurt if they don't know what they're doing?
I will say that there does seem to be a lack of understanding from the lower grades of why things are done the way they are. - Part of it is the fact that a couple of them show up once a week or every other week. - so if Sensei tried to explain 'whys', etc. they missed it.

Peace

dAlen

I will add that I have been hurt once by a senior student when he tried out a technique - that we werent supposed to be practicing - so I was unaware of what was coming...I think this helped to wake him up a bit. (hadnt had a repeat incident.)

Also, with a guest student, his style was using big 'jerky' movements, which left my elbow hurting for a couple of weeks.

This is excluding innocent accidents, such as when a fellow student of similar rank over did nikkyo and left my wrist in pain for awhile. (That was pure accident...nikkyo seems to be a 'hit' or a miss.)

Last edited by dalen7 : 05-14-2008 at 09:50 AM.
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Old 05-14-2008, 11:07 AM   #25
charyuop
Dojo: Ponca Aikikai
Location: Ponca City, Oklahoma
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Re: Making Kote Gaeshi Work - With Resistance

Aikido is spiral, but nobody ever set a rule for the size of the spiral. The more tension there is the more sfter you get and the more the spiral becomes smaller.

I remember what I felt like (and I would pay who knows how much to have a picture) the first time Senpai didn't "flow" as usual with my kotegaeshi. After the instruction from Sensei not to be so much complaiant Senpai started responding in a different way. All of a sudden kotegaeshi no longer worked. That great technique was actually killing me, because would let Senpai to face me ready to punch my nose off. After kotegaeshi I had the same feeling for many other techniques and still have to figure out how to adjust.

And adjusting is what you have to learn to do, you don't have to learn to throw Uke. I assume the resistance that you experience is the one like "he is a rock and can't move him spirally as kotegaeshi requires". Well, then don't. If Uke is good enough to spin around to face you and remains centered, well it is useless to go on doing what you were doing. You might find more effective, instead of going on with the wide movement to take Ukes balance away, simply attack Uke's center. That means that instead of keeping rotating reduce the spiral movement so small that it is as if you walk streight into Uke's center. I found out that is Uke has still a good center a twist on the side kotegaeshi will not work anymore because both Uke and Nage have the same lateral range of motion. At that point it is more usefull a movement that might remind Nikkyo. Compress Uke's hand streight down using your center, only now that you have regained the advantage of the center, twisting the wrist will have a certain effect.

I tell you this, but in the end I do the same wrong thing hee hee (I preach well, but act bad ouch). Don't throw Uke, that is not your job. Your job is figuring out why sometimes kotegaeshi works in one way and why sometimes works in another way. Your job is figuring out what is the correct position, not on the mat, but compared to Uke. You can't draw a line on the tatami and think you always follow that line, it won't work coz Uke won't be doing the same movement everytime.
If you find resistance stop. But that doesn't mean stop, stretch your legs, moan, complain and restart...maybe next time you can throw Uke. STOP and remain there with Uke, figure out where Uke weak point is and take advantage of it. You might need to move the whole body, just twist a little more the hips or (I found out this for me in my iriminage) sometimes it is enough just lower more the knees.
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