aikido styles

hello guys, iv already posted this question but in the wrong side of the forum anyway to start things off again. i would like to know if what aikido is effective for street selfdefense? from what i know there are several styles of it like yoshinkan the hard style,aikikai,iwama ryu,ki aikido and tomiki. my background for the past 12 yrs. is jeet kune do. id like to train in another art for a change though... hope you guys you wont take this question offensively but many are saying that aikido wont work for real bec. the attacks are pre arranged and need the cooperation of the attacker. is this true? id like to know for sure before i invest my time on another art. would really appreciate youe suggestions and explanationa on it. thanks

Kumusta, Kabayan!

O-Sensei's aikido worked. It's up to the practitioner to make his or her aikido work.

IMHO, aikido is not the best place to learn self defence. If the training is designed for it, aikido can teach you some self defence techniques.
With your background in jeet kune do, I think aikido will give you a very interesting new perspective on fighting techniques. I'm not that familiar with jeet kune do, but I think they will compensate for each other's weaknesses.

Joep

dr. maramba: ok naman kabayan so how long have you trained in it? what style of aikido do you train in? from what i heard yoshinkan aikido is effective, teaches the hard fast style of the art from daitoryu aikijujitsu, before morehei uyeshiba got involved with the omotokyo religion. is this true?

I would say that it depends more of the dojo you are training at more than the style.
Aikido can be very effective and relatively merciless if ones is so inclined.
That being said we all have to work the day after and you will be uke as much as you are going to be tori, so as the marquis de Sade nicely puts it "la philosophie du boudoire", the best place is to be in the middle as you are going to get as much as you give. (Though it is my understanding that the Divin marquis did not reallu have aikido in mind when he wrote those line)

As a side note yes attack are pre arranged but I would think that one would find that it is the case in the teaching of most physical activity.
The idea is to put you in an environment where you can learn the technicalities. I mean you would not put someone that never rode on a fiery horse in order to teach him to ride. (Though that would be good for break fall)

phil

Perhaps you can see what types of dojos exist around you, and go see how they practice and how good the senior students are. I've heard by smarter, more experienced than I and would like to echo here the position that effectiveness depends less on the style and more on the teacher.

There are many styles of Aikido which are both hard and soft in their own rights, but it is the person that makes the style of aikido hard or soft in my opinion. Consider Arikawa Sensei who was Aikikai but wasn't his aikido powerful and hard. Then there is Inoue Sensei of Yoshinkan, I see his aikido as very soft different to that of other Yoshinkan practitioners.
Effectiveness is also determined by the person who is doing the art, I mean not all people who practice krav mega or sambo are effective in defending themselves. The majority of martial arts have been tested in combat over the years, so I would imagine that the art itself can't be put under the "effectiveness" question. Well thats my opinion anyway.
wayne

I wouldn't worry too much about the style coz there is only one Aikido. The difference amongst the styles won't change the principle of the Art.

Aikido actually works, but it depends on the training. Everyone says that the old Sensei's Aikido worked fine and that is true...but they actually used it in a fight. Today's Aikido would work too, but the way it is trained in many places won't get you used to using it properly. The lack of sparring in most of the dojos won't get you ready to the quick reaction you need in a real fight, thus you get filled with good working techniques, but not being able to use them when you actually need them. On the other hand there are dojos that will train you well in a complete way. So it would be up to your luck to find the right place.

You have 12 years of Martial Arts behind you, I would suggest you go to a dojo, practice for a little while there (you will need more than 2 weeks to appreciate it for real) and then you will decide if what you learn there is something that will work for you or not.

I come from a JKD/FMA (Ted Lucaylucay) background. Even our dead training drills were prearranged to learn and practice the techniques and concepts. It was at higher levels that we offered full resistance and contact.

Aikido is no different.

My Aikido is fine. It both blends and complements my FMA/JKD well.

Don't trust if from a spectator position. Sign up, show up, and train. Oh yes, please leave all preconceived ideas (previous training) and egos at the door. Absorb what is useful in the art.

There are a wealth of threads here and on other boards about aikido styles. One of the best is at e-budo.com, in the aikido section, on a sticky at the top of the forum. If you use the search function you'll find a lot of good threads on this topic are already out there. I suggest you use the search function, then if you have new or different or specific questions, come back to this thread and ask. I'm sure someone will answer based on the fact that you did your homework...

Best,
Ron

Steven Lee wrote: dr. maramba: ok naman kabayan so how long have you trained in it? what style of aikido do you train in? from what i heard yoshinkan aikido is effective, teaches the hard fast style of the art from daitoryu aikijujitsu, before morehei uyeshiba got involved with the omotokyo religion. is this true?

Hello Steven, to answer your questions:
I've been training in Aikido for a little more than 12 years now.
My training has all been with Aikikai affiliated groups.
Yes, Yoshinkan is quite effective.
O-Sensei got involved with Omoto-Kyo in 1919. Gozo Shioda, the first Yoshinkan Kancho, started training with O-Sensei in 1932. So it would not be correct to say that Yoshinkan originates from O-Sensei's way of practicing prior to his involvement with Omoto-Kyo.
Hope this helps,

Cito

Concretely, where do you live and with whom/what dojo are you thinking of training?

gianluigi pizzuto nice oadvise there lynn seiser thanks also nice to know there a fellow jkd practioner who understands where im coming from...raul rodrigo i live around q.c area near banawe st. have inquired already in stanley's gym where in the teachers is a nice guy, have asked him many questions. also at philippine heart center aikido and iwama aikido at pioneer street, mandaluyong. have also watch demos of tapondo. which do you think is ok?why? thanks to all who shaed their info would appreciate more suggestions though.

Aikido is what you make it. If you wish it to be kind and merciful, it can be. If you wish it to brutal and harsh, it can be that as well. It all depends on the attitude taken towards training and what you desire to do with it. Aikido is a tool; it is up to us to choose the way we use it.

Steven,
Just my 2 centavos kabayan: during training, just relax and come with an open, beginner's mind. Look at the entire art. There is so much more to aikido than just self defense.

Larry

By the way, Aikido is effective for self defense.

I didn't know Stanleys still had aikido classes. It used to be affiliated with our dojo. (Coach Robert Divina of Stanleys is a first rate judoka (former national team coach) and if you are thinking of judo, he would be an excellent teacher.) I've trained with both PHCA and the local Iwama group. I've never been to a Tapondo/Combat Aikido dojo, though some of its practictioners have become members of our dojo, which is mainline Aikikai. Of the groups you've seen, did any impress you? Did you find what you were looking for in terms of combat effectiveness? If you're unsure, get on the mat with them and check it out. In case you're interested, you might also want to try the Kiryukan dojo in Cubao, No. 126 10th Street.

best,

R