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Old 04-18-2007, 06:30 PM   #51
stan baker
Location: east granby, ct
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Re: Internal strength in bowling, fencing, golf, etc.

Hi Justin,
do you have any experience in martial arts, if so what is it

stan
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Old 04-19-2007, 09:37 PM   #52
statisticool
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Re: Internal strength in bowling, fencing, golf, etc.

Quote:
Stan Baker wrote: View Post
Hi Justin,
do you have any experience in martial arts,
Relevance to the topic of this thread?

Justin

A secret of internal strength?:
"Let your weight from the crotch area BE in his hands."
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Old 04-20-2007, 06:09 AM   #53
Tom Fish
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Re: Internal strength in bowling, fencing, golf, etc.

Hi Justin,
I think Stans question was quite reasonable. It doesn't seem helpful to you when people try to explain things within the Martial arts paradigm, and with your requests for proof, it might be helpful if someone understood how to frame a response. It might be possible someday, to help you understand that just because some things may be beyond your ability to grasp, their nature does not become invalid.
Tom
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Old 04-20-2007, 06:32 AM   #54
Budd
 
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Re: Internal strength in bowling, fencing, golf, etc.

Before one brings up the analogy of Roger Ebert critiquing a film and the relevance of his film experience, let us not forget that he is a Pulitzer prize-winning author with actual experience in the film industry (he wrote Beyond the Valley of the Dolls -- say what you will about the quality of his output).

I'm also sure there are plenty of people in the industry that think to themselves, "Ebert, what the hell has he ever done . . .?" I also don't think that people working in film look to Ebert for validation other than to see how other people that DON'T work in the industry react to what he has to say (i.e. whether or not people are likely to come see the film based on his review).

If your audience/peer group is comprised of people that DO have extensive experience in related areas of discussion, then your own experiences do factor in to the amount of validity that's weighted to your contributions.
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Old 04-20-2007, 10:40 AM   #55
Franco
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Re: Internal strength in bowling, fencing, golf, etc.

Quote:
Justin Smith wrote: View Post
Relevance to the topic of this thread?
Justin:

Check out the word ethos. Here is a bit from wikipedia:

Quote:
In rhetoric, 'ethos' is one of the three artistic proofs (pistis) modes of persuasion (other principles being logos and pathos) discussed by Aristotle in 'Rhetoric' as a component of argument. At first speakers must establish ethos. On the one hand, this can mean merely "moral competence", but Aristotle broadens this word to encompass expertise and knowledge.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethos

Looks like the audience is trying to determine whether you are a high or a low-ethos poster. Why do you retort with the same argument ("my martial experience is irrelevant to the topic") over and over again? If you write things in a public forum, it is because you intend for people to read them, right? You have something to tell the world. So, if what you write relates to budo, why wouldn't the readers wonder about your qualifications in budo? This is basic common sense, not rocket science.

But if you still think that your martial experience is irrelevant, why don't you just indulge everyone's curiosity? After all, it should only take you a minute. It's not like somebody is asking you to travel to Tibet just to see if it's raining.

So, please, indulge everyone: what is your experience in martial arts?
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Old 04-20-2007, 02:24 PM   #56
statisticool
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Re: Internal strength in bowling, fencing, golf, etc.

Quote:
Franco Cuminato wrote: View Post
Why do you retort with the same argument ("my martial experience is irrelevant to the topic") over and over again?
It probably has to do with the obvious fact that if someone knows what internal strength is are they are being asked, they can explain it in their own terms whether the person who is asking has 1 month or 20 years of experience in the martial arts.

Justin

A secret of internal strength?:
"Let your weight from the crotch area BE in his hands."
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Old 04-20-2007, 02:47 PM   #57
Franco
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Re: Internal strength in bowling, fencing, golf, etc.

Quote:
Justin Smith wrote: View Post
It probably has to do with the obvious fact that if someone knows what internal strength is are they are being asked, they can explain it in their own terms whether the person who is asking has 1 month or 20 years of experience in the martial arts.

Justin
Right, but why don't you just go ahead and indulge everybody and explain what your martial experience is. It will only take a minute. C'mon.
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Old 04-20-2007, 03:03 PM   #58
Tom Fish
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Re: Internal strength in bowling, fencing, golf, etc.

Hi Justin,
I think it would help people respond to you questions better if they understood how to frame their response in a way that you may better understand it. For instance, if someone was explaining to me a way to establish a ground path and they stated it as "Let your weight from the crotch area Be in his hands", I would understand this explanation and find it helpful. (This has actually happened) If someone without the capability or capacity to understand this was told this same thing, they may think this is a ludicous explanation. They may not understand it and they might use this explanation inadvertently to display their ignorance.(This has also really happened) Anyway, if someone is truly seeking understanding, it would be beneficial to those wishing to help, if some level or degree of ability was established. The answers could then be framed to best provide the information. Other wise, there is just this established level of futility that remains.
Tom
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Old 04-20-2007, 07:34 PM   #59
statisticool
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Re: Internal strength in bowling, fencing, golf, etc.

Quote:
Franco Cuminato wrote: View Post
Right, but why don't you just go ahead and indulge everybody and explain what your martial experience is. It will only take a minute. C'mon.
This point has already been completely addressed and dismissed as irrelevant to the discussion.

Justin

A secret of internal strength?:
"Let your weight from the crotch area BE in his hands."
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Old 04-20-2007, 08:45 PM   #60
Tom H.
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Re: Internal strength in bowling, fencing, golf, etc.

Justin, if you direct people to the forum search, they can satisfy their own curiosity without sidetracking the thread. For example, this post, or this one. Even better, direct people to your introductory post.

More on topic, Sadaharu Oh is the student of Tohei's Rob mentioned back at the start of this thread. Oh broke some big records, but there's some discussion about what this means; Japanese baseball fields are shorter than MLB fields (I read it on wikipedia, I'm not much of a baseball geek).

Last edited by Tom H. : 04-20-2007 at 08:57 PM. Reason: added something on-topic
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Old 04-21-2007, 03:19 PM   #61
Franco
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Re: Internal strength in bowling, fencing, golf, etc.

Wow, Justin, you got a lot of nerve to talk down to people like Dan Harden when you yourself don't even have one year of aikido experience. I see now why you've been so secretive about your martial credentials.
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Old 04-21-2007, 03:32 PM   #62
statisticool
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Re: Internal strength in bowling, fencing, golf, etc.

Quote:
Franco Cuminato wrote: View Post
Wow, Justin, you got a lot of nerve to talk down to people like Dan Harden when you yourself don't even have one year of aikido experience. I see now why you've been so secretive about your martial credentials.
As mentioned, you are able to find it on other threads. It is just irrelevant to this thread, so it is hardly secretive.

If someone (Dan) claims that they cannot be pushed over, that is a claim that transcends aikido.

But let's get back on track. Can 'internal strength' be in the listed activities, and if so, are there and videos of it being done?

I see things like the quote from the fencing book, and fencing specific terms aside, it sounds like it could have came right out of internal martial arts books. It is 'external', and moreover, it is 'Western'.

Justin

A secret of internal strength?:
"Let your weight from the crotch area BE in his hands."
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Old 04-21-2007, 10:46 PM   #63
Aran Bright
Dojo: Griffith Aikido Yuishinkai
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Re: Internal strength in bowling, fencing, golf, etc.

Quote:
Justin Smith wrote: View Post
As mentioned, you are able to find it on other threads. It is just irrelevant to this thread, so it is hardly secretive.

If someone (Dan) claims that they cannot be pushed over, that is a claim that transcends aikido.

But let's get back on track. Can 'internal strength' be in the listed activities, and if so, are there and videos of it being done?

I see things like the quote from the fencing book, and fencing specific terms aside, it sounds like it could have came right out of internal martial arts books. It is 'external', and moreover, it is 'Western'.

Justin
Justin,

I am curious because you actually seem interested in developing internal strength, you do tai chi right? But you are so skeptical that when someone gives you the answers you look for you ignore them and focus on something else.

If you want to learn internal skills get off your computer and go find them, then yes than can be used in anything you like. Kevin posted at the start of this thread about his experience going from karate to aikido to bjj. His training was becoming more and more internally focused but (i would argue) that his training was getting more and more dynamic, using the body in different ways that he never had before. So I am sure he can pick up a tennis raquet and use the skills he has learnt to play tennis, just as some great internal master could use his skills to play tennis. Doesn't make either of them good at tennis though.

Now my point is any video will be useless at showing internal skills in sport because they will look like anyone else, maybe a little more relaxed or focused or centered or whatever but that won't really help you now will it.

Regards,

Aran

http://brisbaneaikido.com

Brisbane Aikido Republic
Brisbane
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Old 04-22-2007, 04:40 AM   #64
statisticool
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Re: Internal strength in bowling, fencing, golf, etc.

Quote:
Aran Bright wrote: View Post
I am curious because you actually seem interested in developing internal strength, you do tai chi right? But you are so skeptical that when someone gives you the answers you look for you ignore them and focus on something else.
What can I say. Their 'internal' seems to just be waxing poetic about regular old external strength.

Quote:
Now my point is any video will be useless at showing internal skills in sport because they will look like anyone else, maybe a little more relaxed or focused or centered or whatever but that won't really help you now will it.
So internal is simply relaxed external?

Justin

A secret of internal strength?:
"Let your weight from the crotch area BE in his hands."
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Old 04-22-2007, 06:35 AM   #65
Aran Bright
Dojo: Griffith Aikido Yuishinkai
Location: Brisbane
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Re: Internal strength in bowling, fencing, golf, etc.

Quote:
Justin Smith wrote: View Post
What can I say. Their 'internal' seems to just be waxing poetic about regular old external strength.

So internal is simply relaxed external?

Justin
No, trust me, your in for a very pleasent surprise...one day.

Keep training that's the first thing. Secondly, start working on strengthening from the inside out, (pilates focuses on this sort of thing whilst I don't think it is really 'internal') balance is more important than brute strength, the two together are of course optimumal. These two factors will leave you in good stead for the future. It is a proven fact in physical therapy that having good internal strength will protect your back and balance your whole the body, reducing the risk of injury. This is not real internal skills that Tohei teaches but a good start.

Anyway that's just my view.

Aran

http://brisbaneaikido.com

Brisbane Aikido Republic
Brisbane
Australia
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