|
|
Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the
world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to
over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a
wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history,
humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.
If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced
features available, you will need to register first. Registration is
absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!
|
07-31-2009, 05:42 PM
|
#1
|
Dojo: Aikido of Fresno
Location: Fresno , CA
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,646
Offline
|
Re: Ranking
How many "major" governing bodies issue rank certificates? For example, the Aikikai issued my rank certificate, it came through the CAA (California Aikido Association), but the actual certificate is issued by the Aikikai.
I know that, for a time at least, that there was an Iwama ryu certificate. And I would also guess that Yoshinkan issues it's own rank, and so would Shodokan/Tomiki.
My general question is how many different major groups have taken it upon themselves to issue rank separate of the Aikikai?
Thanks.
|
|
|
|
07-31-2009, 09:19 PM
|
#2
|
Location: Miami, FL
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 453
Offline
|
Re: Ranking
O'Sensei's uchi-deshi who have formed organizations either approve rank or have it approved by Hombu. Some dojos don't have lineage, but still probably issue rank near a standard.
|
|
|
|
08-03-2009, 01:37 PM
|
#3
|
Dojo: Does it matter?
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 102
Offline
|
Re: Ranking
Quote:
Chris Hein wrote:
How many "major" governing bodies issue rank certificates? For example, the Aikikai issued my rank certificate, it came through the CAA (California Aikido Association), but the actual certificate is issued by the Aikikai.
I know that, for a time at least, that there was an Iwama ryu certificate. And I would also guess that Yoshinkan issues it's own rank, and so would Shodokan/Tomiki.
My general question is how many different major groups have taken it upon themselves to issue rank separate of the Aikikai?
Thanks.
|
There are quite a few organizations that issue rank. Some are sketchy thought. There is a guy in town here that had a Nidan in Aikido from his first karate instructor (who had no Aikido experiance), skipped third, and got a fourth degree black belt in an organization that promotes "all Asain sports, contenental and not".
|
|
|
|
08-03-2009, 02:23 PM
|
#4
|
Dojo: Dallas Aikikai/ Southlake Aikikai
Location: Southlake Texas
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 113
Offline
|
Re: Ranking
Quote:
Ryan Szesny wrote:
There are quite a few organizations that issue rank. Some are sketchy thought. There is a guy in town here that had a Nidan in Aikido from his first karate instructor (who had no Aikido experiance), skipped third, and got a fourth degree black belt in an organization that promotes "all Asain sports, contenental and not".
|
There are actually a lot of people out there who have rankings with this type of organization. This is why soooo many masters are out there now. How can you be in your 40's and be a 10th dan? Easy! Start your own system or name a current system under another name and have one of these guys make you up a pretty certifcate saying you are in fact now 10th dan, or soke, or shihan, or hanshi.
IMO I think this is why Hombu is soo important. I just wish our ranking systems had more continuity in testing. I wish we could be graded on a standard ability. Anyway Peace
|
|
|
|
08-04-2009, 08:03 AM
|
#5
|
Dojo: Aikido of Norfolk/ Aikido Society of Memphis
Location: Norfolk, VA
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 167
Offline
|
Re: Rank Certificate Issuance
This is about 8 years out of date, but I searched the internet for US organizations giving dan ranks in Aikido. I found over 60 different groups, out of which only 8 were through the Aikikai Hombu. Of course, a number of groups were not Aikikai.
|
Jim Baker
Aikido of Norfolk
|
|
|
08-04-2009, 09:02 AM
|
#6
|
Dojo: Aikido of Norfolk/ Aikido Society of Memphis
Location: Norfolk, VA
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 167
Offline
|
Re: Rank Certificate Issuance
Just a little follow up.
I looked up aikido certificates on google and the first one was http://www.martialartscertificate.com/?q=node/54
It is almost a duplicate of the Aikikai Hombu certificate and can be purchased by anyone.
|
Jim Baker
Aikido of Norfolk
|
|
|
08-04-2009, 10:06 AM
|
#7
|
Dojo: Aikido of Fresno
Location: Fresno , CA
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,646
Offline
|
Re: Rank Certificate Issuance
Thanks but that's not quite where I'm going with this.
For example the three organizations I mentioned are headed by Shioda, Tomiki and Saito. If they issued rank, one can make a claim that it is legit.
Sure any one could make up a rank, but I'm asking about major Aikido organizations. For example, I know a few people who have Iwama ryu rank, from Saito sensei, independent of the Aikikai. This is not "Hombu" issued rank, but no less legitimate.
Aikikai or "Hombu" has a flavor of Aikido, but it's not the only flavor. There are lots of very legit groups out there who disagree with the Aikikai, yet they still teach a very legitimate form of Aikido.
I'm also not asking about groups that are branched off of the Aikikai. My example again was the CAA, they do not issue rank themselves, but are an agent of the Aikikai.
|
|
|
|
08-04-2009, 11:03 AM
|
#8
|
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 149
Offline
|
Re: Rank Certificate Issuance
There's an awful lot of that here in the UK. I believe there are only three organisations here that issue rank from hombu. The organisation to which I belong issues its own rank. Our 'authority' comes from a Belgium parent organisation which, as far as I'm aware, has no Aikikai affiliation other than a short-lived Shihan heading it up many moons ago.
But, the Aikido is good, sound stuff. As is that from other self-certifying organisations that I've seen. I think that, here, hombu-recognised rank is the rare exception.
|
|
|
|
08-04-2009, 12:17 PM
|
#9
|
Dojo: Aikido of Norfolk/ Aikido Society of Memphis
Location: Norfolk, VA
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 167
Offline
|
Re: Rank Certificate Issuance
It depends on how you define "Major"?
As an example, The Fugakukai is from a Tomiki Aikido lineage and probably has more students then the Shodokan Tomiki group. There are now several off-shoots of the Fugakukai all issuing Dan ranks in Aikido. They aren't affiliated with any Japanese organization or even with each other. So which ones are major Tomiki groups?
Does "major" mean "many students" or "short lineage" or some other criterion? And who defines "legitimate"?
For me, I'm willing to accept any group that doesn't lie to or mislead their students and has a teaching system that has some functionality.
Having seen at the various Aikido-L seminars the varieties of styles that the experience of Aikido has engendered, I find I'm more accepting of the different ways of looking at our art. Most of my Aikido friends are not Aikikai. Damn, I miss George Simcox.
|
Jim Baker
Aikido of Norfolk
|
|
|
08-04-2009, 05:12 PM
|
#11
|
Dojo: Aikido of Fresno
Location: Fresno , CA
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,646
Offline
|
Re: Rank Certificate Issuance
I would define "Major" as being founded by one of O sensei's students, and run successfully. Like Tomiki, Iwama, or Yoshinkan.
|
|
|
|
08-05-2009, 02:21 AM
|
#12
|
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 841
Offline
|
Re: Rank Certificate Issuance
Quote:
Chris Hein wrote:
I would define "Major" as being founded by one of O sensei's students, and run successfully. Like Tomiki, Iwama, or Yoshinkan.
|
According to that criteria, you might consider the following as "major": - Manseikan Aikido established by Kanshu Sunadomari
- Tendo Ryu Aikido established by Kenji Shimizu
- Shinshin Aiki Shurenkai established by Hitohiro Saito
|
|
|
|
08-05-2009, 09:48 AM
|
#13
|
Dojo: Aikido of Norfolk/ Aikido Society of Memphis
Location: Norfolk, VA
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 167
Offline
|
Re: Rank Certificate Issuance
A quick and incomplete list using your criterion, these organizations have some presence in the US. There are many more worldwide without any US dojos. This list is only Aikikai style dojos.
Aikido Kokikai International, headed by Shuji Maruyama Sensei
http://www.kokikai.org/index.php
Aikido Yuishinkai, founded by Koretoshi Maruyama Sensei
http://www.aikidoyuishinkai.com/
Aiki Manseido , founded by Sunadomari Sensei
http://www.aikimanseido.com/html/manseido-e.html
Aikido Kenkyukai, founded by Takeda Yoshinobu Shihan
http://www.akiusa.org/
Aikido Nippon Kan, founded by Homma Sensei
http://www.nippon-kan.org/index1.html
Yufukan Nishio Budo founded by Shoji Nishio Shihan
http://www.yufukan.com/index_e.html
Tendokan, founded by Kenji Shimizu Shihan
http://www.aiki-tendo.jp/english/home_E.html
Tenshinkai Aikido Federation, founded by Phong Sensei
http://www.tenshinkai.com/index.asp
Suenaka-ha Tetsugaku-ho, founded by Suenaka Sensei
http://www.suenaka.com/biography.htm
Aikido Yuishinkai, founded by Maruyama Koretoshi Sensei
http://www.aikidoyuishinkai.com/
Kurita Juku Aiki, founded by Yutaka Kurita Shihan
http://www.kuritajukuaiki.com/gpage41.html
Aikido Seikikai, founded by Minoru Kurita Sensei
http://www.aikidoseikikai.com/
Aikido Saku Dojos, founded by Endo Shihan
http://homepage3.nifty.com/aikido_sakudojo
Birankai, founded by Chiba Shihan
http://www.birankai.org/
Pacific Aikido Federation, founded by Shiohira Sensei
http://www.pacific-aikido.org/
AIkido Kobayashi Dojos, founded by Kobayashi Yasuo Shihan
http://www.cup.com/kobayashi-dojo/english/index.html
Yoseikan Budo, founded by Mochizuki Shihan
http://www.yoseikan-aix.fr/
Shohei Juku Aikido, founded by Suganuma Sensei
http://www.shoheijukugibsons.com/shohei.htm#sensei
USAF, founded byYamada Shihan
http://www.usaikifed.com/
Aikido Schools of Ueshiba, founded by Saotome Shihan
http://www.asu.org/
Aikido Association of America , founded by Toyoda Shihan
http://www.aaa-aikido.com/founder.htm
California Aikido Association, through Nadeau Sensei
http://www.ai-ki-do.org/
Wagokan Aikido Suren Dojo, founded byYamano Sensei
http://wagokan.com/whatIsWagokan.html
Some other than Aikikai:
Ki Aikido Groups:
Ki No Kenkyu Kai, founded by Koichi Tohei Sebseu
http://ki-aikido.net/KNK/KNK.html
Shin Budo Kan, founded by Imaizumi Sensei
http://www.shinbudokai.org/
Yoseikan Aikido Group:
International Yoseikan Budo Federation, founded by Minoru Mochizuki Sensei
http://www.yoseikanbudo.com/eng/index.shtml
By the definition of being founded by an O Sensei student, none of the Tomiki, Iwama or Shioda groups in the US qualify.
Last edited by jimbaker : 08-05-2009 at 10:00 AM.
Reason: incomplete
|
Jim Baker
Aikido of Norfolk
|
|
|
08-05-2009, 09:54 AM
|
#14
|
Dojo: Aikido of Fresno
Location: Fresno , CA
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,646
Offline
|
Re: Rank Certificate Issuance
Thank you very much.
Many of those are branches of the Aikikai though. For example, the CAA is the example I used, they give their rank through the Aikikai. So does the Pacific Aikido Federation, The USAF.
I'll go through the list though, I'm sure there are some winners in there. I also thought that Saotome Shinan was with the Aikikai as well.
I'm just looking for other schools that can honestly claim to be Ueshiba related Aikido, but are not Aikikai.
Thanks for the help.
Last edited by ChrisHein : 08-05-2009 at 10:04 AM.
|
|
|
|
08-05-2009, 10:17 AM
|
#15
|
Dojo: Aikido of Fresno
Location: Fresno , CA
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,646
Offline
|
Re: Rank Certificate Issuance
I need to learn to read more carefully!
I see now that those are all branches of the Aikikai, and If I would have paid more attention, you told me that.
I'm looking for Aikido organizations outside of the Aikikai. Yet founded by a direct student of Ueshiba. That also issues it's own rank independent of the Aikikai rank. In other words isn't related to the Aikikai, and doesn't tell them about or ask them about the quality of their yudansha
Last edited by ChrisHein : 08-05-2009 at 10:20 AM.
|
|
|
|
08-05-2009, 11:08 AM
|
#16
|
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 149
Offline
|
Re: Rank Certificate Issuance
Chris; I was under the impression that Saotome wasn't affiliated with the Aikikai, despite teaching the style (although I could be wrong). I have no idea about rank issuance, though.
|
|
|
|
08-05-2009, 11:20 AM
|
#17
|
Dojo: Aikido of Norfolk/ Aikido Society of Memphis
Location: Norfolk, VA
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 167
Offline
|
Re: Rank Certificate Issuance
All of these organizations have strict standards for rank and for admitting new dojos. They do not get Aikikai ranks, except where noted.
Iwama:
The Iwama Shinshin Aiki Shurenkai under Saito Sensei's son (although they have no US dojos listed) is independent of the Aikikai Hombu.
http://www.iwamaaikido.com/english/
Iwama in the US:
The Takemusu Aikido Association under Bill Witt Shihan
http://www.takemusu.org/
The Iwama section (Division One) of the CAA under Hendricks Sensei.
http://www.ai-ki-do.org/
Neither was a fulltime student of O Sensei; both were students of Saito Shihan. They get dan ranks through the Aikikiai Hombu.
Tomiki:
Japan Aikido Association/USA is associated with the Shodokan in Tokyo
http://homepage2.nifty.com/shodokan/en/network.html
There's an amazing array of quite respectable Tomiki style groups in the US, but they weren't founded by a first generation student of O Sensei and have no Japanese connection.
Yoshinkan:
International Yoshinkan Aikido Federation, currently run by Shioda Shihan's son has several US dojos
http://www.yoshinkan.net/02contentsE/shibuE.html
Aikido Association of North America under Utada Sensei (who was a student of Shioda, but not so much a student of O Sensei). They issue their own dan ranks
http://www.doshinkan-aikido.org/
http://www.doshinkan-aikido.org/join/
Aikido Yoshinkan Yoseika, founded by Terada Shihan. In the US, it's under Parker Shihan.
I believe they get rank through the IYAF, or are registered through the IYAF.
http://www.seikeikan.com/ayy/index.html
Shinwa Taido:
founded by Noriaki Inoue, a nephew of O Sensei. They have several dojos in the US
http://www.shinwa-taido.org/#
|
Jim Baker
Aikido of Norfolk
|
|
|
08-05-2009, 11:37 AM
|
#18
|
Dojo: Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui Group Philippines
Location: Plymouth, UK
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 492
Offline
|
Re: Rank Certificate Issuance
Actually, not all of those on the list are affiliated or connected with the Aikikai. The following are independent and probably issue their own ranking certificates:
Aikido Kokikai International, headed by Shuji Maruyama Sensei - Ki Society offshoot
Aikido Yuishinkai, founded by Koretoshi Maruyama Sensei - Ki Society offshoot
Aiki Manseido , founded by Sunadomari Sensei - separated from Aikikai in 1969
Aikido Nippon Kan, founded by Homma Sensei - independent from Aikikai
Tendokan, founded by Kenji Shimizu Shihan - separated from Aikikai
Suenaka-ha Tetsugaku-ho, founded by Suenaka Sensei - Ki Society offshoot
|
Inocencio Maramba, MD, MSc
Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui
|
|
|
08-05-2009, 12:14 PM
|
#19
|
Dojo: Messores Sensei (Largo, Fl.)
Location: Florida
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,267
Offline
|
Re: Rank Certificate Issuance
Saotome's ranks go through Honbu.
|
|
|
|
08-05-2009, 10:00 PM
|
#20
|
Dojo: Aikido of Fresno
Location: Fresno , CA
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,646
Offline
|
Re: Rank Certificate Issuance
It would figure that many of the ki society groups wouldn't go through hombu.
I'm interested in finding the shodan criteria for the different major Aikido groups. I'm looking for consistencies in their syllabus.
Thanks for the help.
|
|
|
|
08-05-2009, 10:23 PM
|
#21
|
Dojo: SNJKokikai/Newtown
Location: SE Pennsylvania
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 14
Offline
|
Re: Rank Certificate Issuance
Quote:
Chris Hein wrote:
It would figure that many of the ki society groups wouldn't go through hombu.
I'm interested in finding the shodan criteria for the different major Aikido groups. I'm looking for consistencies in their syllabus.
Thanks for the help.
|
By criteria, are you referring to testing requirements? As in what is on the test?
Kokikai - Shodan test:
Techniques Any previous ki test or technique -- with and without momentum
Minimum 5
Different techniques Against Shomen Uchi
Against Yokomen Uchi
Against Tsuki
Against Ryo Kata Tori
Against Ushiro Tori
(any grab from behind)
Katate Tori (how to treat beginners and
smaller people -- show ability to be
gentle as well as strong)
Any technique Against Keri
Weapons Tanto tori (various knife attacks)
Bokken Kata #1
2 times counting consecutively
Freestyle 5 uke
|
|
|
|
08-06-2009, 10:16 AM
|
#22
|
Dojo: Aikido of Fresno
Location: Fresno , CA
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,646
Offline
|
Re: Rank Certificate Issuance
Wow, thanks for that!
|
|
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:42 PM.
|
vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2024 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
Copyright 1997-2024 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
|
|