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ChrisHein 07-31-2009 05:42 PM

Re: Ranking
 
How many "major" governing bodies issue rank certificates? For example, the Aikikai issued my rank certificate, it came through the CAA (California Aikido Association), but the actual certificate is issued by the Aikikai.

I know that, for a time at least, that there was an Iwama ryu certificate. And I would also guess that Yoshinkan issues it's own rank, and so would Shodokan/Tomiki.

My general question is how many different major groups have taken it upon themselves to issue rank separate of the Aikikai?

Thanks.

Suru 07-31-2009 09:19 PM

Re: Ranking
 
O'Sensei's uchi-deshi who have formed organizations either approve rank or have it approved by Hombu. Some dojos don't have lineage, but still probably issue rank near a standard.

Ryan Seznee 08-03-2009 01:37 PM

Re: Ranking
 
Quote:

Chris Hein wrote: (Post 236224)
How many "major" governing bodies issue rank certificates? For example, the Aikikai issued my rank certificate, it came through the CAA (California Aikido Association), but the actual certificate is issued by the Aikikai.

I know that, for a time at least, that there was an Iwama ryu certificate. And I would also guess that Yoshinkan issues it's own rank, and so would Shodokan/Tomiki.

My general question is how many different major groups have taken it upon themselves to issue rank separate of the Aikikai?

Thanks.

There are quite a few organizations that issue rank. Some are sketchy thought. There is a guy in town here that had a Nidan in Aikido from his first karate instructor (who had no Aikido experiance), skipped third, and got a fourth degree black belt in an organization that promotes "all Asain sports, contenental and not".

jason jordan 08-03-2009 02:23 PM

Re: Ranking
 
Quote:

Ryan Szesny wrote: (Post 236412)
There are quite a few organizations that issue rank. Some are sketchy thought. There is a guy in town here that had a Nidan in Aikido from his first karate instructor (who had no Aikido experiance), skipped third, and got a fourth degree black belt in an organization that promotes "all Asain sports, contenental and not".

There are actually a lot of people out there who have rankings with this type of organization. This is why soooo many masters are out there now. How can you be in your 40's and be a 10th dan? Easy! Start your own system or name a current system under another name and have one of these guys make you up a pretty certifcate saying you are in fact now 10th dan, or soke, or shihan, or hanshi.

IMO I think this is why Hombu is soo important. I just wish our ranking systems had more continuity in testing. I wish we could be graded on a standard ability. Anyway Peace

jimbaker 08-04-2009 08:03 AM

Re: Rank Certificate Issuance
 
This is about 8 years out of date, but I searched the internet for US organizations giving dan ranks in Aikido. I found over 60 different groups, out of which only 8 were through the Aikikai Hombu. Of course, a number of groups were not Aikikai.

jimbaker 08-04-2009 09:02 AM

Re: Rank Certificate Issuance
 
Just a little follow up.
I looked up aikido certificates on google and the first one was http://www.martialartscertificate.com/?q=node/54
It is almost a duplicate of the Aikikai Hombu certificate and can be purchased by anyone.

ChrisHein 08-04-2009 10:06 AM

Re: Rank Certificate Issuance
 
Thanks but that's not quite where I'm going with this.

For example the three organizations I mentioned are headed by Shioda, Tomiki and Saito. If they issued rank, one can make a claim that it is legit.

Sure any one could make up a rank, but I'm asking about major Aikido organizations. For example, I know a few people who have Iwama ryu rank, from Saito sensei, independent of the Aikikai. This is not "Hombu" issued rank, but no less legitimate.

Aikikai or "Hombu" has a flavor of Aikido, but it's not the only flavor. There are lots of very legit groups out there who disagree with the Aikikai, yet they still teach a very legitimate form of Aikido.

I'm also not asking about groups that are branched off of the Aikikai. My example again was the CAA, they do not issue rank themselves, but are an agent of the Aikikai.

David Maidment 08-04-2009 11:03 AM

Re: Rank Certificate Issuance
 
There's an awful lot of that here in the UK. I believe there are only three organisations here that issue rank from hombu. The organisation to which I belong issues its own rank. Our 'authority' comes from a Belgium parent organisation which, as far as I'm aware, has no Aikikai affiliation other than a short-lived Shihan heading it up many moons ago.

But, the Aikido is good, sound stuff. As is that from other self-certifying organisations that I've seen. I think that, here, hombu-recognised rank is the rare exception.

jimbaker 08-04-2009 12:17 PM

Re: Rank Certificate Issuance
 
It depends on how you define "Major"?

As an example, The Fugakukai is from a Tomiki Aikido lineage and probably has more students then the Shodokan Tomiki group. There are now several off-shoots of the Fugakukai all issuing Dan ranks in Aikido. They aren't affiliated with any Japanese organization or even with each other. So which ones are major Tomiki groups?

Does "major" mean "many students" or "short lineage" or some other criterion? And who defines "legitimate"?

For me, I'm willing to accept any group that doesn't lie to or mislead their students and has a teaching system that has some functionality.

Having seen at the various Aikido-L seminars the varieties of styles that the experience of Aikido has engendered, I find I'm more accepting of the different ways of looking at our art. Most of my Aikido friends are not Aikikai. Damn, I miss George Simcox.

dps 08-04-2009 12:29 PM

Re: Rank Certificate Issuance
 
Shodokan Aikido affiliated with Tomiki Sensei's organization Japan Aikido Association;

http://www.tomiki.org/files/JAAUSApromotionpolicy3.pdf

David

ChrisHein 08-04-2009 05:12 PM

Re: Rank Certificate Issuance
 
I would define "Major" as being founded by one of O sensei's students, and run successfully. Like Tomiki, Iwama, or Yoshinkan.

sorokod 08-05-2009 02:21 AM

Re: Rank Certificate Issuance
 
Quote:

Chris Hein wrote: (Post 236599)
I would define "Major" as being founded by one of O sensei's students, and run successfully. Like Tomiki, Iwama, or Yoshinkan.

According to that criteria, you might consider the following as "major":
  • Manseikan Aikido established by Kanshu Sunadomari
  • Tendo Ryu Aikido established by Kenji Shimizu
  • Shinshin Aiki Shurenkai established by Hitohiro Saito

jimbaker 08-05-2009 09:48 AM

Re: Rank Certificate Issuance
 
A quick and incomplete list using your criterion, these organizations have some presence in the US. There are many more worldwide without any US dojos. This list is only Aikikai style dojos.

Aikido Kokikai International, headed by Shuji Maruyama Sensei
http://www.kokikai.org/index.php

Aikido Yuishinkai, founded by Koretoshi Maruyama Sensei
http://www.aikidoyuishinkai.com/

Aiki Manseido , founded by Sunadomari Sensei
http://www.aikimanseido.com/html/manseido-e.html

Aikido Kenkyukai, founded by Takeda Yoshinobu Shihan
http://www.akiusa.org/

Aikido Nippon Kan, founded by Homma Sensei
http://www.nippon-kan.org/index1.html

Yufukan Nishio Budo founded by Shoji Nishio Shihan
http://www.yufukan.com/index_e.html

Tendokan, founded by Kenji Shimizu Shihan
http://www.aiki-tendo.jp/english/home_E.html

Tenshinkai Aikido Federation, founded by Phong Sensei
http://www.tenshinkai.com/index.asp

Suenaka-ha Tetsugaku-ho, founded by Suenaka Sensei
http://www.suenaka.com/biography.htm

Aikido Yuishinkai, founded by Maruyama Koretoshi Sensei
http://www.aikidoyuishinkai.com/

Kurita Juku Aiki, founded by Yutaka Kurita Shihan
http://www.kuritajukuaiki.com/gpage41.html

Aikido Seikikai, founded by Minoru Kurita Sensei
http://www.aikidoseikikai.com/

Aikido Saku Dojos, founded by Endo Shihan
http://homepage3.nifty.com/aikido_sakudojo

Birankai, founded by Chiba Shihan
http://www.birankai.org/

Pacific Aikido Federation, founded by Shiohira Sensei
http://www.pacific-aikido.org/

AIkido Kobayashi Dojos, founded by Kobayashi Yasuo Shihan
http://www.cup.com/kobayashi-dojo/english/index.html

Yoseikan Budo, founded by Mochizuki Shihan
http://www.yoseikan-aix.fr/

Shohei Juku Aikido, founded by Suganuma Sensei
http://www.shoheijukugibsons.com/shohei.htm#sensei

USAF, founded byYamada Shihan
http://www.usaikifed.com/

Aikido Schools of Ueshiba, founded by Saotome Shihan
http://www.asu.org/

Aikido Association of America , founded by Toyoda Shihan
http://www.aaa-aikido.com/founder.htm

California Aikido Association, through Nadeau Sensei
http://www.ai-ki-do.org/

Wagokan Aikido Suren Dojo, founded byYamano Sensei
http://wagokan.com/whatIsWagokan.html

Some other than Aikikai:

Ki Aikido Groups:
Ki No Kenkyu Kai, founded by Koichi Tohei Sebseu
http://ki-aikido.net/KNK/KNK.html

Shin Budo Kan, founded by Imaizumi Sensei
http://www.shinbudokai.org/

Yoseikan Aikido Group:
International Yoseikan Budo Federation, founded by Minoru Mochizuki Sensei
http://www.yoseikanbudo.com/eng/index.shtml

By the definition of being founded by an O Sensei student, none of the Tomiki, Iwama or Shioda groups in the US qualify.

ChrisHein 08-05-2009 09:54 AM

Re: Rank Certificate Issuance
 
Thank you very much.

Many of those are branches of the Aikikai though. For example, the CAA is the example I used, they give their rank through the Aikikai. So does the Pacific Aikido Federation, The USAF.

I'll go through the list though, I'm sure there are some winners in there. I also thought that Saotome Shinan was with the Aikikai as well.

I'm just looking for other schools that can honestly claim to be Ueshiba related Aikido, but are not Aikikai.

Thanks for the help.

ChrisHein 08-05-2009 10:17 AM

Re: Rank Certificate Issuance
 
I need to learn to read more carefully!

I see now that those are all branches of the Aikikai, and If I would have paid more attention, you told me that.

I'm looking for Aikido organizations outside of the Aikikai. Yet founded by a direct student of Ueshiba. That also issues it's own rank independent of the Aikikai rank. In other words isn't related to the Aikikai, and doesn't tell them about or ask them about the quality of their yudansha

David Maidment 08-05-2009 11:08 AM

Re: Rank Certificate Issuance
 
Chris; I was under the impression that Saotome wasn't affiliated with the Aikikai, despite teaching the style (although I could be wrong). I have no idea about rank issuance, though.

jimbaker 08-05-2009 11:20 AM

Re: Rank Certificate Issuance
 
All of these organizations have strict standards for rank and for admitting new dojos. They do not get Aikikai ranks, except where noted.

Iwama:
The Iwama Shinshin Aiki Shurenkai under Saito Sensei's son (although they have no US dojos listed) is independent of the Aikikai Hombu.
http://www.iwamaaikido.com/english/

Iwama in the US:
The Takemusu Aikido Association under Bill Witt Shihan
http://www.takemusu.org/

The Iwama section (Division One) of the CAA under Hendricks Sensei.
http://www.ai-ki-do.org/

Neither was a fulltime student of O Sensei; both were students of Saito Shihan. They get dan ranks through the Aikikiai Hombu.

Tomiki:
Japan Aikido Association/USA is associated with the Shodokan in Tokyo
http://homepage2.nifty.com/shodokan/en/network.html

There's an amazing array of quite respectable Tomiki style groups in the US, but they weren't founded by a first generation student of O Sensei and have no Japanese connection.

Yoshinkan:

International Yoshinkan Aikido Federation, currently run by Shioda Shihan's son has several US dojos
http://www.yoshinkan.net/02contentsE/shibuE.html

Aikido Association of North America under Utada Sensei (who was a student of Shioda, but not so much a student of O Sensei). They issue their own dan ranks
http://www.doshinkan-aikido.org/
http://www.doshinkan-aikido.org/join/

Aikido Yoshinkan Yoseika, founded by Terada Shihan. In the US, it's under Parker Shihan.
I believe they get rank through the IYAF, or are registered through the IYAF.
http://www.seikeikan.com/ayy/index.html

Shinwa Taido:
founded by Noriaki Inoue, a nephew of O Sensei. They have several dojos in the US
http://www.shinwa-taido.org/#

CitoMaramba 08-05-2009 11:37 AM

Re: Rank Certificate Issuance
 
Actually, not all of those on the list are affiliated or connected with the Aikikai. The following are independent and probably issue their own ranking certificates:

Aikido Kokikai International, headed by Shuji Maruyama Sensei - Ki Society offshoot

Aikido Yuishinkai, founded by Koretoshi Maruyama Sensei - Ki Society offshoot

Aiki Manseido , founded by Sunadomari Sensei - separated from Aikikai in 1969

Aikido Nippon Kan, founded by Homma Sensei - independent from Aikikai

Tendokan, founded by Kenji Shimizu Shihan - separated from Aikikai

Suenaka-ha Tetsugaku-ho, founded by Suenaka Sensei - Ki Society offshoot

Don_Modesto 08-05-2009 12:14 PM

Re: Rank Certificate Issuance
 
Saotome's ranks go through Honbu.

ChrisHein 08-05-2009 10:00 PM

Re: Rank Certificate Issuance
 
It would figure that many of the ki society groups wouldn't go through hombu.

I'm interested in finding the shodan criteria for the different major Aikido groups. I'm looking for consistencies in their syllabus.

Thanks for the help.

mrjam2jab 08-05-2009 10:23 PM

Re: Rank Certificate Issuance
 
Quote:

Chris Hein wrote: (Post 236832)
It would figure that many of the ki society groups wouldn't go through hombu.

I'm interested in finding the shodan criteria for the different major Aikido groups. I'm looking for consistencies in their syllabus.

Thanks for the help.

By criteria, are you referring to testing requirements? As in what is on the test?

Kokikai - Shodan test:

Techniques Any previous ki test or technique -- with and without momentum
Minimum 5
Different techniques Against Shomen Uchi

Against Yokomen Uchi

Against Tsuki

Against Ryo Kata Tori

Against Ushiro Tori
(any grab from behind)

Katate Tori (how to treat beginners and
smaller people -- show ability to be
gentle as well as strong)

Any technique Against Keri

Weapons Tanto tori (various knife attacks)

Bokken Kata #1
2 times counting consecutively

Freestyle 5 uke

ChrisHein 08-06-2009 10:16 AM

Re: Rank Certificate Issuance
 
Wow, thanks for that!


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