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Old 09-30-2011, 11:46 AM   #76
Diana Frese
Dojo: Aikikai of S.W. Conn. (formerly)
Location: Stamford Connecticut
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Re: verbal abuse from a teacher

Thanks, Ahmad! I should read Robin Hood again, it's a classic and fascinating.
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Old 10-01-2011, 04:26 PM   #77
"aikidokaanonymno"
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Re: verbal abuse from a teacher

Quote:
Diana Frese wrote: View Post
...Leaving the scene of conflict.
I've actually read that book, or at least that part of it. Easy to read and agree but so hard to actually do what's written!

Thanks for sharing the stories.

And thanks, everyone, for the good wishes!
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Old 10-05-2011, 01:24 PM   #78
Phil Van Treese
Dojo: Tampa Judo and Aikido Dojo, Tampa, Fl
Location: Tampa, Florida
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Re: verbal abuse from a teacher

If my sensei would have treated me like that, there is no doubt he'd hear something from me and then I would leave. That abuse will never make you better but it sure will bring you down. Leave the dojo and go else where. There are better dojos around that treat people with respect. Find one!!!!!!
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Old 10-06-2011, 12:25 AM   #79
"Aikidaddy"
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Re: verbal abuse from a teacher

Coming from an Aikido Sensei for a number of years,and a sports coach, teaching kids in both activities, as well as having kids of my own who are grown, and played sports instead of martial arts. I have done everything I could when it came to building either an athlete or a martial artist. I will tell you I had lots of complaints, and disgruntled behavior displayed as a result of my coaching style and style as a sensei. It comes with the territory when you are in a leadership position.

Sometimes it is hard to brake an attitude that is not useful to a student or player. To humble them as stuff goes to their head, to scold them, or insult them because the get the idea the can do things better. Sometimes be being rough on a student or player brings out their best. There are a lot of attitudes a coach or sensei has to mange.

If profanity is used in terms of curse words, racist terms and sexual language that is the line. Other wise, as my coach told me, "suck it up."
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Old 10-26-2011, 05:40 AM   #80
bobvermoolen@gmail.com
Dojo: Kaishinkan in Rotterdam NL
Location: Rotterdam
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Re: verbal abuse from a teacher

My advice is. Find another dojo before u start disliking Aikido for the wrong reasons.
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Old 01-14-2012, 08:48 PM   #81
"Bubx"
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Re: verbal abuse from a teacher

As my grandfather used to say, "keep moving, don't look back."
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Old 01-14-2012, 10:01 PM   #82
Malicat
Dojo: Suenaka-Ha Aikido of Bloomington
Location: Bloomington, Indiana
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Re: verbal abuse from a teacher

I realize this is a bit old, but this struck a chord with me. I first started training in sport karate when I was 13. My Sensei would yell at us if we weren't paying attention, he would smack us (Hard!) on the legs while we were in stances to make sure we were firmly in stance, and he would immediately correct mistakes. I never once felt bad or upset by the way he handled any of it, and instead felt as if all of those corrections were because he cared about us and wanted us to be better martial artists.

Sadly, after 2 years the dojo closed due to lack of students, and I went looking for a new dojo. I went to one of the more popular ones in the area, and felt as if I was always wrong and would never manage to pick up the style we were learning (Okinawan Karate) even though the sensei never yelled. Feeling as if I was a constant screw up and being treated with contempt when I asked questions was making me miserable, so I quit after a month. Based on the number of students the second school had, I'm sure that there are lots people who learn well in that sort of environment, but I do not. I feel fortunate that my first sensei was a role model and gave me a good idea of what to look for in a teacher.

When I went to my first Aikido class this past September, I found an even less harsh environment that my first school. Class always has me smiling, and frequently laughing with my Sensei and other students, and even when we do something wrong, it's a joy to practice the same technique repeatedly so I can do it correctly. Aikido is very precise, which is not what I am used to, but I can't begin to describe the feeling of joy I had when I finally 'got' sankyo.

If a teacher is being easy on me because I am a girl, or new, or for whatever reason, I am not learning. If a teacher is being unduly harsh and my confidence and joy in the art itself is getting damaged, I am also not learning. But my first experiences have taught me what I need, and what I don't need, to get the most out of my training. I feel confident and safe around all of the yudansha and senior students at both of the dojos where I train. If I don't feel safe and respected by the men I train under, and with, I am not going to spend time there. And no matter how superior I feel Aikido is to my first style of karate, I will always been profoundly grateful for what I learned under my first Sensei.

--Ashley
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Old 01-19-2012, 01:49 AM   #83
dalen7
 
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Dojo: Karcag Aikido Club
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Re: verbal abuse from a teacher

"You suffer till you realize you do not need to suffer"...
As a child the parent would typically be involved as to see what is happening.
As an adult you have various options such as walking away or ignoring it.
[But never taking anything anyone says about you for face-value... after all we are constantly changing and no word can describe a being that is in the constant state of 'change', as it were.]

As far as skill set, perhaps try some grappling/tai boxing [gina carano bit] and see what your six years of Aikido fit into things. [After three years I took it into grappling and quickly saw what was what and have to say helped my Aikido tremendously. After all, its my humble opinion that Aikido is not whole without Judo and/or BJJ. [Its more about distance, it all ties together as one art: jiu-jitsu]

Attitude does not, obviously, make one skilled at anything...

The question really boils down to why you stay, as you mentioned if you go somewhere else, there you are. So whatever you are dealing with now, in some form or another it will happen again.

Peace

dAlen [day•lynn]
dum spiro spero - {While I have breathe - I have hope}

Art
http://www.lightofinfinity.org

Philosophical
http://dalen7.wordpress.com
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Old 01-19-2012, 02:09 AM   #84
dalen7
 
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Re: verbal abuse from a teacher

Quote:
Ashley Hemsath wrote: View Post
and even when we do something wrong, it's a joy to practice the same technique repeatedly so I can do it correctly. Aikido is very precise, which is not what I am used to, but I can't begin to describe the feeling of joy I had when I finally 'got' sankyo.

--Ashley
Indeed, the "Joy of Aikido" - like Bob Ross, "we dont have mistakes, we just have happy accidents"
Totally can relate to this Eckhart Tolle style teaching.

With Aikido a couple of things were important for my learning, as I did not speak Hungarian fluently at the time. [actually I still dont]

- feel the technique... not just go through a motion.
[This leads up later to a BJJ type scenario where its like a puzzle as uke rolls out if Ikkyo if the control is not tight and then either uke pins nage, or nage goes for the armbar.]

- most importantly is a safe learning environment at the beginning where nage does not over apply nikkyo. [I still have a funky feeling in my wrist from time to time from early Aikido days when nage over applied the technique.]

In Aikido there is no need for yelling... this isnt the military where they are trying to break everyone down and rebuild them in Uncle Sams image.

If someone is actually paying money, I doubt they want to be yelled at - though some people may enjoy the motivation they get from, "come on... one more rep!!!" - which is more of an encouragement yell vs. talking down to.

Anyway...

Peace

dAlen [day•lynn]
dum spiro spero - {While I have breathe - I have hope}

Art
http://www.lightofinfinity.org

Philosophical
http://dalen7.wordpress.com
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Old 01-19-2012, 07:07 AM   #85
Malicat
Dojo: Suenaka-Ha Aikido of Bloomington
Location: Bloomington, Indiana
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Re: verbal abuse from a teacher

Quote:
Dalen Johnson wrote: View Post
In Aikido there is no need for yelling... this isnt the military where they are trying to break everyone down and rebuild them in Uncle Sams image.

If someone is actually paying money, I doubt they want to be yelled at - though some people may enjoy the motivation they get from, "come on... one more rep!!!" - which is more of an encouragement yell vs. talking down to.
I do actually know some people who gain motivation from spite. "You think I can't do this? I'll show you!!!" I just personally don't. I prefer the idea of, this teaching style doesn't suit my learning style, as opposed to making blanket statements, "This teacher is bad." or "This teacher is good." Especially since I am not there to make a judgement call.

--Ashley
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Old 02-22-2012, 06:00 PM   #86
"aikidokaanonymno"
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Re: verbal abuse from a teacher

Well, just thought I'd check back in, now that I've been at the new dojo for a few months.

Let me just say, dear God, what was wrong with me? Why was I so blind? I love Aikido so much more now! I am learning something new every day! Thanks everyone!

On a side note, I do think that the Stanford Prison Experiment does explain why I stayed for so long in such a negative environment.
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Old 02-22-2012, 06:22 PM   #87
gregstec
Dojo: Aiki Kurabu
Location: Elizabethtown, PA
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Re: verbal abuse from a teacher

Quote:
Anonymous User wrote: View Post
Well, just thought I'd check back in, now that I've been at the new dojo for a few months.

Let me just say, dear God, what was wrong with me? Why was I so blind? I love Aikido so much more now! I am learning something new every day! Thanks everyone!

On a side note, I do think that the Stanford Prison Experiment does explain why I stayed for so long in such a negative environment.
Glad things worked out

I am not sure if this has already been said in this thread, but here goes anyway. Two different people can yell at you at the same time for doing something wrong with exactly the same words but be two entirely different inputs - the difference lies in the intent behind the criticism - some people enjoy demeaning you and others truly want to help with corrective input - you can generally feel the difference when it occurs.

Greg
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Old 02-22-2012, 06:44 PM   #88
hughrbeyer
Dojo: Shobu Aikido of Boston
Location: Peterborough, NH
Join Date: Aug 2010
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Re: verbal abuse from a teacher

Whoopee! Amazing what a little shift in perspective will do, huh?

Thanks for posting an update. My day's a little brighter.
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Old 02-22-2012, 06:54 PM   #89
robin_jet_alt
Join Date: Jun 2011
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Re: verbal abuse from a teacher

Quote:
Hugh Beyer wrote: View Post
Whoopee! Amazing what a little shift in perspective will do, huh?

Thanks for posting an update. My day's a little brighter.
I agree. I'm really happy to hear that you are doing so well. Thanks for letting us know.
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Old 02-22-2012, 08:43 PM   #90
Janet Rosen
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Re: verbal abuse from a teacher

YAY!!!

Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
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Old 02-23-2012, 01:49 AM   #91
Alic
Dojo: Sokushinkan Dojo, Vancouver
Location: Richmond, BC
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Re: verbal abuse from a teacher

Good on ya, girl!

I am one of the luckier newbie Aikidoka's in that my first dojo happens to be a high quality one, with an experienced and balanced instructor who cares for his student's wellbeing and development. When we make a really dumb mistake, instead of blowing up in our face, he just keel laughing up streams of tears. He keeps the atmosphere light but invigorating, all the while serious about the techniques he taught. This makes you want to come back for more everytime, and hate that training is ending.

In your case, that teacher was simply a douchebag, nothing more to say. His behaviour is highly disturbing, to the point of potentially dangerous (predatory, almost?). If my master saw this kind of behaviour, there would be no telling what he'd do.

I'm glad you didn't let this injustice go on any further (no doubt due to the efforts of our fellow aikidoka's). See how different it is when the atmosphere is light and electrified instead of heavy and murky?

Keep training in that kind of happy atmosphere. Hard training and abusive training are two different things, and the masters of the old knew which is which. Sadly, not all sensei's of today's Aikido world understands that...
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Old 02-23-2012, 06:32 AM   #92
SeiserL
 
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Re: verbal abuse from a teacher

IMHO, now you are learning Aikido: get off the attack line.

Compliments.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 02-23-2012, 08:58 AM   #93
Diana Frese
Dojo: Aikikai of S.W. Conn. (formerly)
Location: Stamford Connecticut
Join Date: Nov 2010
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Re: verbal abuse from a teacher

I'm so glad you posted, and with such good news. It's heartwarming, too, to see how many others who had been concerned about you posted joyful comments!
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Old 02-25-2012, 05:43 PM   #94
"aikidokaanonymno"
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Re: verbal abuse from a teacher

Quote:
Greg Steckel wrote: View Post
Two different people can yell at you at the same time for doing something wrong with exactly the same words but be two entirely different inputs - the difference lies in the intent behind the criticism - some people enjoy demeaning you and others truly want to help with corrective input - you can generally feel the difference when it occurs.
That's true. I've been yelled at by people in the academia, but it never had such negative effects on my psyche. I couldn't understand why it was different, but now I know.

Everyone here is so supportive, Aikido really is full of great people! I'm so glad my love for the art has been restored. Thank you, all. Safety and peace to all of you!
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Old 02-29-2012, 05:03 PM   #95
TheAikidoka
 
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Re: verbal abuse from a teacher

Quote:
Tim Ruijs wrote: View Post
Verbal abuse is not to build character, it is to break character. Think army drill sergeant. Why do drill sergeants act the way they do?
First break you down and then build you up to be a soldier.
To some extent this goes for martial arts to.

In Aikido I think this is very much out of place.

Think deeply about why you would want stay with this teacher. Is he that good? Or is the dojo conveniently 'there'? If you cannot find a (very) good reason to stay, leave immediately.
I could not agree more. However in some sense you have to take responsibilty too, remember you can choose to stay or choose to go, but whatever you do choose be happy about it. Nobody and I mean nobody should make anybody feel worthless. If this is the case what worth is it staying with this teacher, in fact I would hardly call this a teacher, it`s a bully!

Andy B
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Old 03-03-2012, 10:19 AM   #96
"Chimer"
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Re: verbal abuse from a teacher

This is intteresting . I find only in martial arts such intimate relations exist. People seem to join martial because of an interpersonal need as student and instructor. I see Aikido to be more a favorable environment.
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