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Old 08-20-2009, 07:10 PM   #26
Buck
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Re: Shocking video: karate black belt almost beats man who does not wnt to fight to d

I hope this wasn't staged. And if it was nothing changes in my comments.
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Old 08-20-2009, 07:45 PM   #27
d2l
 
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Re: Shocking video: karate black belt almost beats man who does not wnt to fight to d

I find this punks actions disgusting.
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Old 08-20-2009, 11:01 PM   #28
thisisnotreal
 
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Re: Shocking video: karate black belt almost beats man who does not wnt to fight to d

whoah. crazy how people expect anonymity thru the interweb. why would he post it. for the record; criminal negligence 20 years.
while i'm generally happy at my fellow man's outrage in this; and the general way it is seemingly going to be played out (e.g. investigated ,etc)..i can't help but pause and wonder about the repercussions of internet web posse justice; i think this one is clear; but paranoid that I am I would consider to see that this is not staged. but if it were? whew. dunno. crazy thought. yeah hmm. fragile reality.

and as to the question of evil:
If a word means what it means; there has to be a definition of evil. it is real.
and what we saw on that tape was the evil in those men.
black. darkness.
was quite horrible.

Last edited by thisisnotreal : 08-20-2009 at 11:03 PM.
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Old 08-21-2009, 06:16 AM   #29
CarlRylander
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Re: Shocking video: karate black belt almost beats man who does not wnt to fight to d

I'm sorry, you guys, I didn't realise it was that bad. I didn't realise the blood coming out of his nose was a bad sign. Of course, a trained martial artist shouldn't be doing this. I'm a little enured to it. Where in a lot of places, five onto one, or two onto one, is regarded as fair and normal and right and you always kick someone when they are down, as a way of humiliating them and hammering home the fact that you are the victor. It happens in a lot of places, and in a lot of places in Britain. I certainly wouldn't do it. I would be a little enthusiastic with some of my pressure point applications and holds, and I might try an incapaciting atemi, if I was attacked in the street! I would not do it in a dojo, of course.

Surely you should be aware that this happens on the stree a lot? If you read the papers!

Last edited by akiy : 09-22-2010 at 11:20 AM.
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Old 08-21-2009, 06:42 AM   #30
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Shocking video: karate black belt almost beats man who does not wnt to fight to d

Sorry, but I can't see the fact that the "North Philly Stomp" happens a lot mitigating these circumstances one bit.

People get raped during war a lot...especially now in certain parts of Africa. That doesn't make it any easier to hear about or see. At least not for me.

Best,
Ron

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"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
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Old 08-21-2009, 06:49 AM   #31
K. Abrams
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Re: Shocking video: karate black belt almost beats man who does not wnt to fight to d

If we lost our sense of horror, what a sad commentary that would be about the state of our humanity.
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Old 08-21-2009, 06:53 AM   #32
CarlRylander
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Re: Shocking video: karate black belt almost beats man who does not wnt to fight to d

Ok, but you should be aware that it happens.

What if you saw this happening on the street, and the perpetrator turned on you, next? You might be so shocked and stunned that your responses would be slower and you would end up like the last guy.
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Old 08-21-2009, 06:55 AM   #33
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Re: Shocking video: karate black belt almost beats man who does not wnt to fight to d

Quote:
Carl Rylander wrote: View Post
It's not THAT bad. There's not much blood. Worse could happen to anybody on the street and often does.
What were you watching? There was way too much blood, and it didn't happen in the street.

The guy that got beaten was only trying to demonstrate his kata, said he wasn't going to hit the guy, but the "black belt" launched into him, using the term "motherf*!%er" whilst hitting him.

No place for these people. I sincerely hope they get some sort of come uppence as they are just plain evil, that shoul dbe everyone in the room at the time.

A difficult problem is easily solved by asking yourself the question, "Just how would the Lone Ranger handle this?"
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Old 08-21-2009, 06:58 AM   #34
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Re: Shocking video: karate black belt almost beats man who does not wnt to fight to d

Quote:
Carl Rylander wrote: View Post
Where I come from, five onto one, or two onto one, is regarded as fair and normal and right and you always kick someone when they are down, as a way of humiliating them and hammering home the fact that you are the victor. It's normal where I come from, and in a lot of places in Britain.
Not aware of it happening that often round my way (also UK), where the hell do you live? Make sure I stay away from there.....

A difficult problem is easily solved by asking yourself the question, "Just how would the Lone Ranger handle this?"
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Old 08-21-2009, 07:01 AM   #35
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Re: Shocking video: karate black belt almost beats man who does not wnt to fight to d

Quote:
Carl Rylander wrote: View Post
I'm sorry, you guys, I didn't realise it was that bad. I didn't realise the blood coming out of his nose was a bad sign.
Any blood coming out of the head is a bad sign, especially aa a result of a beating. When he got kicked in the head, there was a load clang as his head hit that rail, there was a pool of blood under his head at that point, coupled with the trail of blood leading out, not convinced it was all from his nose ........

A difficult problem is easily solved by asking yourself the question, "Just how would the Lone Ranger handle this?"
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Old 08-21-2009, 07:06 AM   #36
CarlRylander
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Re: Shocking video: karate black belt almost beats man who does not wnt to fight to d

Bullying is an art form in a lot of places and there is a caste system too. Chavs are the ruling class and have incredible power over the social services. If you get into a fight with one of them and you don't deliberately lose, you can find yourself in big trouble, both with the authorities and with their dozens if not hundreds of mates.

It's why I've put off taking up any sort of MA for so long. I might be better off where I am.

I'ts sort of like a 'planet of the apes' scenario.

I've been to Milton Keynes and I loved it. Not at all hostile to intelligent lifeforms!

Last edited by akiy : 12-03-2010 at 11:45 AM.
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Old 08-21-2009, 07:27 AM   #37
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Shocking video: karate black belt almost beats man who does not wnt to fight to d

Quote:
Ok, but you should be aware that it happens.
Sorry, I don't see what being aware that it happens has to do with not accepting it as acceptable. Complete disconnect there for me.

Quote:
What if you saw this happening on the street, and the perpetrator turned on you, next? You might be so shocked and stunned that your responses would be slower and you would end up like the last guy.
??? That does happen, but where is the link between me being horrified that people treat each other like that and saying it is wrong, and me freezing when I need to defend myself? Especially if you train yourself NOT to freeze when adversity hits home?

An American mayor just went through something like that. He ended up in the hospital, but he redirected the anger toward himself, and away from women and children. He didn't freeze, got a couple of shots in as a matter of fact. It still ended badly for him. As far as I know, he doesn't even train in anything, but he still didn't freeze.

I just don't get what you are saying...maybe it's just me.

Best,
Ron

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Old 08-21-2009, 07:37 AM   #38
CarlRylander
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Re: Shocking video: karate black belt almost beats man who does not wnt to fight to d

I have a book on Aikido by my bedside. I have a hundred or so sayings of Ueshiba on my PC. I think he has said you have to be prepared for all situations, in various forms, quite a few times. This might be one of them, though it really should originate from a street surveillance cam and not a dojo and in the world Aikidoists want, not at all.

I'm glad you wouldn't let if affect your responses.

My Glaswegian uncle saw someone get pushed underneath a tram once, in a gang war.
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Old 08-21-2009, 07:53 AM   #39
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Re: Shocking video: karate black belt almost beats man who does not wnt to fight to d

That is disgusting. Reprehensible. The "instructor" set up an obviously confused and ill-prepared individual, and taped the "demonstration" to further his own twisted agenda. There is nothing glorious or proud in this episode. Human beings are supposed to be more evolved than this. This was animalistic.
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Old 08-21-2009, 07:57 AM   #40
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Shocking video: karate black belt almost beats man who does not wnt to fight to d

Quote:
and in the world Aikidoists want, not at all.
Frankly, my revulsion has nothing what so ever to do with what I, as an aikidoka want. Not one of the kung fu, karate or tai kwan do instructors that I have had would put up with that sort of behavior. Or any of my family or friends.

Best,
Ron

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Old 08-21-2009, 08:26 AM   #41
Lorel Latorilla
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Re: Shocking video: karate black belt almost beats man who does not wnt to fight to d

Quote:
Carl Rylander wrote: View Post
I'm sorry, you guys, I didn't realise it was that bad. I didn't realise the blood coming out of his nose was a bad sign. Of course, a trained martial artist shouldn't be doing this. I'm a little enured to it. Where I come from, five onto one, or two onto one, is regarded as fair and normal and right and you always kick someone when they are down, as a way of humiliating them and hammering home the fact that you are the victor. It's normal where I come from, and in a lot of places in Britain. I certainly wouldn't do it. I would be a little enthusiastic with some of my pressure point applications and holds, and I might try an incapaciting atemi, if I was attacked in the street! I would not do it in a dojo, of course.

Surely you should be aware that this happens on the stree a lot? If you read the papers!
Ok ok ok we get it, you're a tough guy that comes from a place where beating down mentally handicapped people (that don't want to fight) close to death is normal. We get your point.
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Old 08-21-2009, 12:27 PM   #42
DonMagee
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Re: Shocking video: karate black belt almost beats man who does not wnt to fight to d

Quote:
Carl Rylander wrote: View Post
I'm sorry, you guys, I didn't realise it was that bad. I didn't realise the blood coming out of his nose was a bad sign. Of course, a trained martial artist shouldn't be doing this. I'm a little enured to it. Where I come from, five onto one, or two onto one, is regarded as fair and normal and right and you always kick someone when they are down, as a way of humiliating them and hammering home the fact that you are the victor. It's normal where I come from, and in a lot of places in Britain. I certainly wouldn't do it. I would be a little enthusiastic with some of my pressure point applications and holds, and I might try an incapaciting atemi, if I was attacked in the street! I would not do it in a dojo, of course.

Surely you should be aware that this happens on the stree a lot? If you read the papers!
Simple math

Punched in the nose and it bleeds = normal and safe

Kneed in the back of the skull and your head is stomped into the ground and blood comes out of your mouth/nose and you are choking on your own blood = not normal, very unsafe, you are probably going to die.

There is every indication in that film that the man who was attacked would probably die without medical treatment, or at least be handicapped for life.

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
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Old 08-21-2009, 01:42 PM   #43
Michael Douglas
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Re: Shocking video: karate black belt almost beats man who does not wnt to fight to d

Well, thanks for posting the link to the vid page, that was great.
As far as I can see and hear, everything up to the clang was fair and above board for a no-rules altercation between two muppet point-fighters with no balance and no grappling ability. Lucky for the chunky guy he had also practised hitting things so some of the time when he hit the lanky guy something was achieved. His basic advantage was bodyweight and not having goofy kung fu moves, rather than any fighting ability. He'd have done far far better with boxing or wrestling.

The (CLANG!) metal stand and base, and the sick stomp afterward were taking things way too far .. and the chunky guy was hauled off his opponent when the folks saw what a sicko he was being ...

I'm sure Carl isn't condoning the street-assault attitudes he has observed, just reporting. I'm sure he's right.
I stay away from the city centres on weekend nights for the same reasons.
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Old 08-21-2009, 05:02 PM   #44
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Re: Shocking video: karate black belt almost beats man who does not wnt to fight to d

I know this is a bit random, but was the title to this thread changed?

~Look into the eyes of your opponent & steal his spirit.
~To be a good martial artist is to be good thief; if you want my knowledge, you must take it from me.
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Old 08-21-2009, 05:32 PM   #45
Darryl Cowens
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Re: Shocking video: karate black belt almost beats man who does not wnt to fight to d

Happens on the street a lot?... possibly.. but if this is what goes on in dojos, then give the addresses of where not to go, because I'm not going near those dojos.

The victim of the assault clearly isn't of a 'normal' state of mind... whether it is a mental handicap, or he is wasted on drugs isn't clear, and is up for speculation.. either way, the instructor took advantage of that state of mind, and orchestrated the entire foul scenario for his own giggles.

They guy had no interest in fighting... He wanted to show them some 'kata' , not fight.. I could accept some gentle sparring, but the other guy took to him like it was a full contact fight with no rules from the word go... and his actions when he was down on the ground was sickening... no other word for it..

Anyway, as the OP noted... bullshido.net is well onto it, and I believe it has been handed on to legal authorities... I did some reading online yesterday, and the general feeling across a lot of forums is one of disgust... both the sensei and the attacker have been named.... allegedly the original source of the video was from youtube page of the sensei... and these were the comments he added to the page:

Quote:
This dummy was in my shopping center while I was on a Bodyguard Job in Washington, DC. This guy was in the Pizza Hut eating pizza off the plates of others and the Pizza Hut Manager ran him out with a pistol. Later the very same day, police officers were called to remove him from a nearby pharmacy after having been caught reaching into customer's purses. A short time after that, he visited a Napa Auto Parts store next to my Karate Dojo and told the management he planned on teaching in that Dojo and that Jesus taught him.

The Napa guys told him he was confused (their polite way of warning the man against such action), but not wanting to miss a show, they told the man they would close early just to watch and that he must not know the owner, which is nobody to play with.. Needless to say, the police pulled him out of the dumpster behind my Karate Dojo where he was neatly placed. Semper Fi to all my Marine brothers. The karate student in the white is also a Marine Sgt. and a brand new Black Belt. Never get stupid with a Marine, you could get jacked up and have your clock stopped.
There is even a printscreen jpg of the offending youtube page with comments that confirm this. Dunno about anyone else, but that makes me kinda sick to the stomach...
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Old 08-21-2009, 09:01 PM   #46
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Re: Shocking video: karate black belt almost beats man who does not wnt to fight to d

Quote:
Don Magee wrote: View Post
Simple math

Punched in the nose and it bleeds = normal and safe

Kneed in the back of the skull and your head is stomped into the ground and blood comes out of your mouth/nose and you are choking on your own blood = not normal, very unsafe, you are probably going to die.

There is every indication in that film that the man who was attacked would probably die without medical treatment, or at least be handicapped for life.
for the record: also learned that seeing straw coloured liquid is the worst thing to see leaking through the nose or mouth. that is brain sac fluid. and it may look like snot..which wouldn't even 'look' as bad as blood, in a vid clip or in real life. fwiw

Oh yeah. I liked how you wrote that post Don. QFT. That other dude Karl, had to know that though, no? stomp is one thing. stomp with a hardstop concrete pillow feedbacking the force into his skull and cracking it has to be serious. oy. human body can only be so tough.

Last edited by thisisnotreal : 08-21-2009 at 09:04 PM.
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Old 08-21-2009, 11:48 PM   #47
Al Gutierrez
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Re: Shocking video: karate black belt almost beats man who does not wnt to fight to d

Very disturbing. I hope that justice is eventually served.
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Old 08-22-2009, 03:36 AM   #48
CarlRylander
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Re: Shocking video: karate black belt almost beats man who does not wnt to fight to d

Quote:
Lorel Latorilla wrote: View Post
Ok ok ok we get it, you're a tough guy that comes from a place where beating down mentally handicapped people (that don't want to fight) close to death is normal. We get your point.
Actually, where I come from, I'm regarded as being a wimp of wimps, cos I wouldn't stand and whoop this sort of thing on. I DO think Ueshiba said you should prepare yourself for all situations. This sort of thing happens. My great-grandather was an illegal bare- fist boxer and I bet he saw worse.

To be fair, kicking someone when they're on the ground is regarded as normal, but half-killing someone is regarded as wrong, even where I am. People would be upset. I'm glad that people pointed out the blood from the nose bit and the loud crack.

It's got no place in any decent MA dojo, the worst that should happen is that an incapacitating throw to the floor shoold be followed up by a 'fake' blow or punch, to make people aware this could happen in the street.

Last edited by CarlRylander : 08-22-2009 at 03:45 AM.
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Old 08-22-2009, 03:55 AM   #49
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Re: Shocking video: karate black belt almost beats man who does not wnt to fight to d

Quote:
Carl Rylander wrote: View Post
It's got no place in any decent MA dojo, the worst that should happen is that an incapacitating throw to the floor shoold be followed up by a 'fake' blow or punch, to make people aware this could happen in the street.
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Old 08-22-2009, 05:59 AM   #50
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Re: Shocking video: karate black belt almost beats man who does not wnt to fight to d

Quote:
Ricky Wood wrote: View Post
Is there anything I can say without winding you up???

I've seen Hapkido videos on youtube which demonstrate this. By incapacitating, I mean a hold that you can't get out of, or you can't respond to, that leaves the thrower in a 'winning' position.

I don't do Aikido, I've just read up about it.I'm not sure I could do the ukemi. I know a Taekwondo black belt. I read the papers.

I've had my head stamped on, by a neighbour, who lived beneath me, who thought I was strange, cos I read books and didn't sit and watch TV all night. I was laughed at and told to get a head X ray when I complained about it to the police. iIve seen 'appalling' I wouldn't do it to anyone.

Last edited by akiy : 08-31-2010 at 03:07 PM.
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