Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Spiritual

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-15-2007, 10:45 PM   #1
Battongeor227
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 3
Offline
Make spiritual side part of my training

I don't currently train in aikido, but know that as far as the spiritual side of the martial arts it's very good in that area. Currently I train in Brazilian jiu jitsu but find that there is very little spiritual taught in this art. It is however a beautiful expression of gentleness and adaptation in motion and I plan to teach the art one day. I would like to know how to implement the spiritual side into it that I used to have with the more traditional arts that I studied before.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2007, 07:37 AM   #2
Dewey
Location: St. Louis, MO
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 179
United_States
Offline
Re: Make spiritual side part of my training

Quote:
George Batton wrote: View Post
I don't currently train in aikido, but know that as far as the spiritual side of the martial arts it's very good in that area. Currently I train in Brazilian jiu jitsu but find that there is very little spiritual taught in this art. It is however a beautiful expression of gentleness and adaptation in motion and I plan to teach the art one day. I would like to know how to implement the spiritual side into it that I used to have with the more traditional arts that I studied before.
Hmmm....interesting. I do have a little experience with BJJ, but limited, so I defer to those on this forum who actually study it more than occasionally. It is indeed a highly efficient grappling art, and you can't go wrong learning strong groundfighting skills. BTW, how's your "stand up game?" (as they like to call it)

I also believe your observations about it's lack of a spititual dimension is spot-on. As I understand it, BJJ is intentionally devoid of that dimension. That being said, BJJ is not anti-spiritual and there are indeed many spiritual & religious folks who train in it...it's just simply not considered an essential component.

Since this is an Aikido forum, naturally I'd suggest picking up the active study of Aikido. It would indeed provide fresh perspective in your personal training and challenge you to grow in ways you never before considered: between one art that is almost custom-tailored for competition (BJJ) and is universally considered a fighter's art to an art that eschews competition & fighting and constantly demands introspection concerning your motives for wanting to fight (Aikido). Besides, if you do go on to become a BJJ instructor, your time in Aikido will make you a stronger competitor. The martial concept of Aiki (blending/joining/merging) is diffrent than Jiu/Ju...as you will discover. Combine them both...watch out!
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2007, 09:52 AM   #3
jennifer paige smith
 
jennifer paige smith's Avatar
Dojo: Confluence Aiki-Dojo / Santa Cruz Sword Club
Location: Santa Cruz
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,049
United_States
Offline
Re: Make spiritual side part of my training

I'd also offer, beyond the good advice that you've already gotten, that you simply begin reading O'Sensei's words and teachings. You can apply them to any art and then adapt your understanding in spirit.

Jennifer Paige Smith
Confluence Aikido Systems
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2007, 09:46 PM   #4
Battongeor227
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 3
Offline
Re: Make spiritual side part of my training

Thanks for the responses. I do believe that the competitive aspect is a little too prevalent in BJJ. I don't really study bjj for self defense anymore than a kendoist trains to fight people in the streets with a sword. I do it kind of for the same reason a person would practice everyday on a violin. I also box on occasion but do jiu jitsu much more. I did one mma fight that I won, but have noticed that more and more people involved in that sport nowadays neglect true technique and are especially lacking in the spiritual side if the martial arts. To a lot of them it's just about fighting and winning trophies. I've won medals and trophies in jiu jitsu tournaments and have one from my MMA fight, but have realized that I originally got into martial arts for the long haul. The main reason that I train is because I feel that I'm an artist first and find that through the movements of any particular fighting style a certain expression of myself is portrayed every day in practice as well as in competition. I might not have invented the movements but they are still my own as I grow and learn more and more about myself everyday.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2007, 10:46 PM   #5
Dewey
Location: St. Louis, MO
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 179
United_States
Offline
Re: Make spiritual side part of my training

Quote:
George Batton wrote: View Post
Thanks for the responses. I do believe that the competitive aspect is a little too prevalent in BJJ. I don't really study bjj for self defense anymore than a kendoist trains to fight people in the streets with a sword. I do it kind of for the same reason a person would practice everyday on a violin. I also box on occasion but do jiu jitsu much more. I did one mma fight that I won, but have noticed that more and more people involved in that sport nowadays neglect true technique and are especially lacking in the spiritual side if the martial arts. To a lot of them it's just about fighting and winning trophies. I've won medals and trophies in jiu jitsu tournaments and have one from my MMA fight, but have realized that I originally got into martial arts for the long haul. The main reason that I train is because I feel that I'm an artist first and find that through the movements of any particular fighting style a certain expression of myself is portrayed every day in practice as well as in competition. I might not have invented the movements but they are still my own as I grow and learn more and more about myself everyday.
Sounds like you got a head start on seeing what the "real" competition in martial arts is: that of self-development, discovering self-awareness & the spiritual realization that all living beings are interconnected. It begins with the strengthening of the body & the perfection of martial technique, which then becomes the forging of mind & spirit into purity of heart & will. You move from being a fighter to becoming a warrior. Fighters live for the moment and for the glory of victory; warriors see the "big picture" and realize their smallness in the universe and in the outcome of events...warriors only fight if they have no other choice. Mythology & folklore from all cultures tell this same tale. It's no different here in the 21st century.

What upsets so many MMA folks about Aikido is that Aikido begins with the spiritual and works backwards towards the physical...a concept that many can't (or won't) grasp, something I'm sure you observed time and again. In Aikido, competition & fighting with others ultimately become meaningless because it is with ourselves (i.e. ego, selfishness, sinfulness...however it fits into your philosophical/spiritual/religious outlook) that we really content against. That's what Master Ueshiba, whom we call O'Sensei, discovered in his martial arts journey.

Are fighting skills important? Maybe & sometimes. However, warriors never fight...they defend. Big difference.

Last edited by Dewey : 07-16-2007 at 10:48 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2007, 11:35 PM   #6
Battongeor227
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 3
Offline
Re: Make spiritual side part of my training

Well I do consider myself a counter fighter maybe because of the influence aikido teaching had on me growing up and reading many books on the subject. I suppose I just enjoy the evolution of my skill that comes through hours of practice sweat and perseverance. Eventually a very unique expression of myself is manifested in my movements. I've found that many of the people getting involved in BJJ didn't come from a traditional martial arts background so there was no spiritual side to what they were learning. Therefore, a lot of them are just coming into the dojo to learn how to hurt people. The thing I learned that I especially liked about aikido was that the ultimate aim of it was to subdue the opponent without causing physical harm to him.. That is my ultimate aim eventually with my jiu jitsu practice and hope that one day many years from now it will be the main objective of my students. I'm very far off from being able to teach but hope to educate my students in the more spiritual side of the martial arts.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2007, 06:50 AM   #7
Haowen Chan
Location: Pittsburgh
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 91
United_States
Offline
Re: Make spiritual side part of my training

Reigi is a big part of it for me.

You can train the same old practical stuff and not have lectures about the ki of the universe, but just having to bow on and off the mat and do the whole rei thing before practice starts really sets the tone.

Last edited by Haowen Chan : 07-17-2007 at 06:55 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2007, 06:54 AM   #8
Dewey
Location: St. Louis, MO
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 179
United_States
Offline
Re: Make spiritual side part of my training

Quote:
George Batton wrote: View Post
Well I do consider myself a counter fighter maybe because of the influence aikido teaching had on me growing up and reading many books on the subject. I suppose I just enjoy the evolution of my skill that comes through hours of practice sweat and perseverance. Eventually a very unique expression of myself is manifested in my movements. I've found that many of the people getting involved in BJJ didn't come from a traditional martial arts background so there was no spiritual side to what they were learning. Therefore, a lot of them are just coming into the dojo to learn how to hurt people. The thing I learned that I especially liked about aikido was that the ultimate aim of it was to subdue the opponent without causing physical harm to him.. That is my ultimate aim eventually with my jiu jitsu practice and hope that one day many years from now it will be the main objective of my students. I'm very far off from being able to teach but hope to educate my students in the more spiritual side of the martial arts.
Right on! Aikido is a self-defense art, and not a fighting art (the difference is like between apples and oranges). The intent of self-defense arts are not to maim or kill your attacker...only to cease their attack ASAP and remove yourself from the situation/scenario ASAP in order to prevent further attacks. The first, and most effective means is to avoid engaging in fighting at all, if possible...which is morally & legally defined as two or more people willingly engaging in combat with one another with the intent of inflicting bodily harm. It's how you choose to use your fighting skills that make all the difference.

Welcome to Aikiweb! Hope to see you participate in the rest of the forum as well. I think you can bring a lot of insight to the folks on this forum, both members and lurkers alike.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2007, 10:38 AM   #9
SeiserL
 
SeiserL's Avatar
Dojo: Roswell Budokan, Kyushinkan Dojo, Aikido World Alliance
Location: Roswell, GA USA
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,710
United_States
Offline
Re: Make spiritual side part of my training

IMHO, the correct question would be, "How do your stop your spiritual side from being a part of everything you do?"

IOW, state your spiritual beliefs congruently in everything you do, including training.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2007, 01:00 PM   #10
ChrisHein
 
ChrisHein's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Fresno
Location: Fresno , CA
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,628
United_States
Offline
Re: Make spiritual side part of my training

Depends on what you call spiritual.

My first major Aikido teacher spent lots of time on the "spiritual" side of Aikido. I was uchi deshi with him, and much of my life became a spiritual practice. I am very grateful for that time, and feel that it has made me a much better person.

My second major martial art teacher didn't spend any time talking about the "spiritual" side of the martial arts. But was himself was an amazing human being. He never talked about enlightenment, or truth of character; but he had it in spades. Just the example of his giving honest nature had a very profound effect on me.

So what is spiritual? I personally would say that spirituality is conscious participation and acceptance of the human condition. To me a highly spiritual person, knows to his core what he is, excepts it, and is always aware of his current place in the universe. It doesn't' require intelligence, or charisma. Doesn't mean always making the right decisions for everyone else. Or that you have magic powers. It just means being you, completely.

Now how do you add that to your training? It doesn't depend on the art you teach. You could be a cook, a chimney sweep or a lion tamer. Doesn't matter. Budo (the warriors path to enlightenment), in all of it’s variations is a great road to travel. The only requirement to travel this path is to stay true to yourself. Ask yourself: what you are, who you are, and why you do what you do. There are no wrong answers, only truths and deeper truths. Be true to yourself always, and I would say you are a spiritual person.

Now weather you want to make this something overt at your school, or something that just happens naturally is up to you. But if you are true to yourself, just having you as an example will greatly help your students.

  Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2007, 09:11 AM   #11
Budd
 
Budd's Avatar
Dojo: Taikyoku Budo
Location: Williamsville, NY
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 930
United_States
Offline
Re: Make spiritual side part of my training

Nice post, Chris. I think what goes along with what you're saying is that, no matter how "spiritual" someone comes across as "being", ultimately it's their actions and the example they set that defines their level of "spiritual" attainment (again, depending on one's definition).
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2007, 09:29 AM   #12
jennifer paige smith
 
jennifer paige smith's Avatar
Dojo: Confluence Aiki-Dojo / Santa Cruz Sword Club
Location: Santa Cruz
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,049
United_States
Offline
Re: Make spiritual side part of my training

Quote:
Budd Yuhasz wrote: View Post
Nice post, Chris. I think what goes along with what you're saying is that, no matter how "spiritual" someone comes across as "being", ultimately it's their actions and the example they set that defines their level of "spiritual" attainment (again, depending on one's definition).
" And freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose."

Jennifer Paige Smith
Confluence Aikido Systems
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2007, 10:53 AM   #13
Budd
 
Budd's Avatar
Dojo: Taikyoku Budo
Location: Williamsville, NY
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 930
United_States
Offline
Re: Make spiritual side part of my training

Nature will tell either way.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2007, 09:40 AM   #14
jennifer paige smith
 
jennifer paige smith's Avatar
Dojo: Confluence Aiki-Dojo / Santa Cruz Sword Club
Location: Santa Cruz
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,049
United_States
Offline
Re: Make spiritual side part of my training

Quote:
Budd Yuhasz wrote: View Post
Nature will tell either way.
Now you're starting to sound like me .

nice post

Jennifer Paige Smith
Confluence Aikido Systems
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2007, 09:44 AM   #15
Budd
 
Budd's Avatar
Dojo: Taikyoku Budo
Location: Williamsville, NY
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 930
United_States
Offline
Re: Make spiritual side part of my training

As it is written, so shall it be, unless it's re-written . . . or unread.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2007, 10:00 AM   #16
jennifer paige smith
 
jennifer paige smith's Avatar
Dojo: Confluence Aiki-Dojo / Santa Cruz Sword Club
Location: Santa Cruz
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,049
United_States
Offline
Re: Make spiritual side part of my training

Quote:
Budd Yuhasz wrote: View Post
As it is written, so shall it be, unless it's re-written . . . or unread.
or un-written or re-read, or whatever.....

Jennifer Paige Smith
Confluence Aikido Systems
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2007, 10:01 AM   #17
jennifer paige smith
 
jennifer paige smith's Avatar
Dojo: Confluence Aiki-Dojo / Santa Cruz Sword Club
Location: Santa Cruz
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,049
United_States
Offline
Re: Make spiritual side part of my training

Quote:
Budd Yuhasz wrote: View Post
As it is written, so shall it be, unless it's re-written . . . or unread.
mmmm...got it.... or re-tread; like a tire.

Jennifer Paige Smith
Confluence Aikido Systems
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2007, 10:03 AM   #18
Budd
 
Budd's Avatar
Dojo: Taikyoku Budo
Location: Williamsville, NY
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 930
United_States
Offline
Re: Make spiritual side part of my training

There is nothing fouler than a stale lough of tread.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2007, 09:42 AM   #19
jennifer paige smith
 
jennifer paige smith's Avatar
Dojo: Confluence Aiki-Dojo / Santa Cruz Sword Club
Location: Santa Cruz
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,049
United_States
Offline
Re: Make spiritual side part of my training

or a treading, late, sloth.

Jennifer Paige Smith
Confluence Aikido Systems
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2007, 05:19 PM   #20
Budd
 
Budd's Avatar
Dojo: Taikyoku Budo
Location: Williamsville, NY
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 930
United_States
Offline
Re: Make spiritual side part of my training

or a breading slate broth . . .
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2007, 10:15 AM   #21
jennifer paige smith
 
jennifer paige smith's Avatar
Dojo: Confluence Aiki-Dojo / Santa Cruz Sword Club
Location: Santa Cruz
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,049
United_States
Offline
Re: Make spiritual side part of my training

Quote:
Budd Yuhasz wrote: View Post
or a breading slate broth . . .
with gravel croutons?

Jennifer Paige Smith
Confluence Aikido Systems
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2007, 02:09 PM   #22
Budd
 
Budd's Avatar
Dojo: Taikyoku Budo
Location: Williamsville, NY
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 930
United_States
Offline
Re: Make spiritual side part of my training

Absolutely - the more green, granola rock' em sock 'ems - the better.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2007, 03:03 PM   #23
Keith R Lee
Location: Alabama
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 219
United_States
Offline
Re: Make spiritual side part of my training

You might want to check out:

http://www.roydeanacademy.com/

Roy holds dan ranks in Aikido and BJJ, plus he posts here occasionally. So it is definitely possible to do both arts (I do as well, so do many others on AIkiweb). Roy also publishes the excellent Electronic Journal of Jiu-Jitsu (EJJ) which focuses on a wide range of topics, including the mixing of Aikido and BJJ.

Keith Lee
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2007, 03:39 PM   #24
Budd
 
Budd's Avatar
Dojo: Taikyoku Budo
Location: Williamsville, NY
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 930
United_States
Offline
Re: Make spiritual side part of my training

Holy cross thread pollination, Batman! Those crazy bjjers just post about BJJ anywhere they please, don't they?

That's not very spiritual, Keith. I'm going to confess and prey er pray to my swami about you . . .

On that note about Roy Dean's Academy - it also happens to be in Bend, Oregon, which is officially one of the niftiest places on the planet. You can have all sorts of spiritual experiences with nature in that region of the United States (see, on topic!)

Darn it, I'm getting sucked in again - Ohhhmmmmmm . . .
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2007, 12:41 AM   #25
Ian Cottrill
Dojo: Dragon Dojo of Aikido Bundaberg Branch
Location: Bundaberg
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3
Australia
Offline
Re: Make spiritual side part of my training

When you go past the fighting & competition & you are still a student of the art, then you are already on a Spiritual Path. You said of your art, "beautiful expression of gentleness & adaptation in motion", stop looking for your Spiritual Path, your already on it. Enjoy it.
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

Budo Bear Patterns - Sewing pattern for Women's (and Men's) dogi.



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Is aikido a spiritual practice ? jennifer paige smith Spiritual 84 07-26-2007 09:11 PM
committed attack/sensitive ukemi paradox Janet Rosen Training 30 10-13-2005 07:18 PM
Spiritual side of martial arts without a teacher? Kung Fu Liane Spiritual 40 05-15-2003 08:50 AM
Looking for intensive courses in SE Asia John Yeldham General 5 03-25-2002 02:16 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:05 AM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate