Should woman wear brassiere under they gi?

Judging by the speed this thread is developing, it will surely become one of the hottest on aikiweb

Thank you for all these funny answers! But keep writing replies.

When I first started teaching in 1978, as far as I know, the sports bra had yet to be invented. Most women wore a t-shirt over their regular bras. However, when practicing Katatori techniques the straps sometimes got twisted and suddenly the woman would discover that the elegant bra she was wearing was now broken.

Presently, I do not have a stated "policy" on what to wear underneath. I assume all are on the mat to train and that they are smart enough to wear clothing that supports their various body parts.

I strongly suspect that the older of us on the mat probably are wearing more under our gi now than we did when we were younger. This is from the desire to keep most of our parts where they belong and out of pain.

As far as the "wasp" look is concerned. Since when is it required that the belt be worn on the hips? I just thought it was worn on the hips because men generally wear their pants on their hips. You know sometimes the shape of some of us gals just don't allow it. And for me it would look plain weird. Anyhow, so what if it is a "wasp" look?

Until I got a bujin women's dogi top, I was tying my belt tightly. Why? because otherwise it would just open up. Now the bujin top covers me enough and has nice ties on the sides. The standard dogi just doesn't fit my shape.

It's great that some women don't have to wear a t-shirt or tank top. Although, I don't think wearing it should be a requirement. No bra, to me, is just a plain no-no. I unfortunately show off way too much cleavage otherwise. I've discovered the cheap Hanes tee-shirts are thin and lightweight enough to not be too hot. (I train in South Florida so I know hot.)

Originally posted by giriasis As far as the "wasp" look is concerned. Since when is it required that the belt be worn on the hips? I just thought it was worn on the hips because men generally wear their pants on their hips. You know sometimes the shape of some of us gals just don't allow it. And for me it would look plain weird. Anyhow, so what if it is a "wasp" look?

Like I said when I originally mentioned it - its an unwritten fashion statement that men don't adopt the wasp look. Nothing about practicallity or finding your centre, just fashion. Half the women in my dojo have the wasp look, none of the men - it just lacks that macho look.

I'd always wear t-shirt and undershirt under the dogi.. makes it thicker but, it's so cold otherwise.
I just practiced a couple of times here in Germany and most of the guys here just wear their hakama without anything under it .. well except underwear i suppose. Aren't you suppose to wear something? .. i mean showing off your thigh isn't a nice sight while practicing.. :P

Riki Kogure-sensei used to caution everyone to be careful not to step on their hakama because they might tear it and "show their heinie."

Regards,

Speaking of Riki Kogure and hakama - please see his homepage. http://www.butaman.ne.jp/~shizukat/riki/

Originally posted by Chuck Clark Riki Kogure-sensei used to caution everyone to be careful not to step on their hakama because they might tear it and "show their heinie." Regards,

Originally posted by PeterR Speaking of Riki Kogure and hakama - please see his homepage. http://www.butaman.ne.jp/~shizukat/riki/

What the heck is he doind with Arafat?!!!!

Not a clue - but he is what you call a politically connected businessman.

What I want to know is - how did your first Shodokan exposure go?

Originally posted by Edward What the heck is he doind with Arafat?!!!!

Not wading into the bra thing as such,

The X-over top is called a kieko hanten, there are many forms of hanten, fishermen even wear a string one thats prevents water logging! it's not nessearily underwear, more a casual jacket.

Whe white pants are called Zubon, they are not underwear either, more peasants or children's play clothes. Here a century on from Kano's inintial teaching of Judo we forget that he expected the adults to wear hakama, zubon came later, there is some influence from the Shotokan and his friend Funikoshi on this.

Traditionaly under any clothing mawashi is worn literally a white cotton loin cloth. In Japan die-hards still wear these, even business men I'm told still go in for them. Yes it's an image!

As to women's clothing, the earliest photo's of Ueshiba's, Funokoshi's and Kano's female Japanese students show them in printed dress Kimono of the informal type. Usually of 2 or three layers. If we look at prints from the Mieji and Yedo periods showing women in training they are usualy going as a girlfriend of mine used to call it 'free range'. But thier training wasn't mixed.

Women wearing the same clothing as men in training i.e; Hanten, obi, and hakama or zubon came after WW2, it reflects more uni-sex training taking place, as wel as a desire for uniformity with male classes at the kodokan, shobukan and Shodokan as well as others. As well as a change in social attitudes.

Curiously untill the occupation public baths were unisex, apparently the these dissapeared in the 60's. I think there are only three traditional uni-sex baths in the whole of Japan today.

As a note many large Budo organizations stipulate in thier regulations that women should wear thier hakama longer and higher with the rim just under the bust line, and a (pretty) bow knot instead of a square knot.

In Japan wear a white T-shirt, if not in Japan use your own discretion, quite frankly if your naked and train seriously people will take you seriously, otherwise a three piece business suit won't do it

auskodo

Not to flog a particular product, but, the BuJin jackets are AWESOME!
I (6ft, 170lbs, size 17 dress shirts, 34waist) got one from my wife last year, and that thing is cut so well it stays always stays closed. She bought one for herself (5'5'', 130?), and her stays so closed she was able to lend her belt to someone who had forgotten theirs and go a whole practice (men's & women's both have the ties on left & right hip). Models are for either men or women. They work so well what you wear underneath is a moot point because they NEVER open.

We like them so much were getting each one before our trip to Japan this July; the wicking fabric is sooooo sweet on hot days.

www.bujindesign.com

Originally posted by auskodo Curiously untill the occupation public baths were unisex, apparently the these dissapeared in the 60's. I think there are only three traditional uni-sex baths in the whole of Japan today.

I am sure there must be more. I have been to at least three Roten Buro where there was a men's pool, a women's and a larger mixed one. Still you are right - the vast majority are segregated. Pity - what it means in my family is that the girls get to hang out and I have to bath by myself. I tend to finish way before them and since I drive - I can't even have the after bath beer (well just one).

Similar to my only experience in a public bath in Japan (outside Misawa AB, snowed in on a cross-country)...two F-4 crews and 5 Viper pilots went left, and I by myself went right. They at least had safety in numbers to not feel too foolish, while I, recognising only 'please' and 'thank you' in Japanese, did the best I could following the actions of the elderly Japanese women on my side. They didn't seem to understand English or Russian, and I was not confident enough in the Korean I had learned so far to try that, so I hope I didn't offend too many as I stumbled through what I hoped was proper behavior.

With no one to talk to, I finished early and waited for them outside. They had consumed a lot of Sopporo earlier, so they may have been making up what was on their side, but it sounded a lot more luxurious...I was so sceptical, one of the WSOs tried to pull me into the mens side to prove it, luckily wiser if no more sober minds sided with me...

Regarding upper gis with straps - actually, I use one such & love it. Even though I don't have anything to hide beneath it it is VERY useful, because I don't have to waste valuable practice time adjusting my gi & I can always feel comfortable in it. The only problem is that the gi was cheap and the straps get torn . But otherwise, I couldn't do without it. . .

I have a practical example of why some women should wear sports bras.

Once used ikkyo to take this middle aged women to the ground before following up with groundwork (forgotten propper term sorry still learning)with one knee tucked into armpit and her arm scraped down my other knee - anyway as soon as the knee went into armpit she screamed out in pain - I had no idea why but it turned out I was sitting on her 'boob' (her term not mine).

Ever since then I advocate that women with floppy breasts should wear adequate sports bras.

I on the other hand have been sporting the wasp look with belt tied on belly button rather than just under since I dont want my gi to keep opening up.Never thought it looked unmanly but will be paranoid in double checkying my look and everyone elses next time im at the dojo.

I do also think any guy that wears a shirt under his gi (for reasons other than certain skin conditions) can be teased mercilessly.

Originally posted by tedward I have a practical example of why some women should wear sports bras.

I'm sorry, but you are still ignorant. Breast tissue is, and should be, soft. The only way to prevent them from being pressed out to the side when lying flat on your belly is to wear a sports bra made of stainless steal, and it doesn't have a lot to do with old and floppy.

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Regards
Hanna

In other words, Tedward, women with real breasts should wear a sports bra. It's unfortunate that many men are duped by the breast implants they see on models in magazines and videos.

Thanks, Hanna, for pointing that out.
janet dtantirojanarat
www.warriorwoman.org

In case you are wondering "Then how do I pin them?" the answer is simple: rather than kneeling on your partner (or their breast, or their ribs, etc) kneel on the mat and slide the knee snugly against them. Pretend it would be like someone kneeling between your legs to effect a pin, you wouldn't like us just plopping down as close to your pelvic bones as we can get, never mind any squishy soft tissue that might get in the way, would you ?

I agree it is kind of a sad commentary on what we've become when artificial breasts seem 'normal' and natural breasts 'abnormal'... sigh

Originally posted by ca [B I agree it is kind of a sad commentary on what we've become when artificial breasts seem 'normal' and natural breasts 'abnormal'... sigh [/b]

Not to get off on a tangent here, but isn't this true of more in our lives now, artifical breasts, unaturally skiiny or buff people, etc. Personally I like real humans.
Sorry, just had to rant.
Niadh

In other words, Tedward, women with real breasts should wear a sports bra. It's unfortunate that many men are duped by the breast implants they see on models in magazines and videos

I agree it is kind of a sad commentary on what we've become when artificial breasts seem 'normal' and natural breasts 'abnormal'... sigh [/b]

Not to get off on a tangent here, but isn't this true of more in our lives now, artifical breasts, unaturally skiiny or buff people, etc. Personally I like real humans.

duped - certainly not the difference is always obvious, and I feel I should put a word in on behalf of men (we talk about this alot) I think I can vouch for most of when I say the difference between fake and real is always obvious and that more than 95% of men prefer real to fake.

Getting back to Aikido thanks Colleen Annes for the advice I will bear that in mind the next time I practice.

Well this is driving rather off topic... but once I saw a documentary on the implant topic and the interviewer asked that how can I tell the difference between "real" and "fake" (as using terms that Tedward used) when everything has more or less "normal" size. The answerer was a (male) surgeant and expert on plastical surgerys answered that: you don't. And then added with a smile: Only with years - when it's "fake" then everything else ages, breasts do not.

So there's nothing to claim (we prefer blah blah) exept that we, men, are ignorant dorks who know s*#% about women.

Now I heard that in US they make abdominal muscle implants (of silicone) for men. Now THAT'S sick...

And just for the record and on topic: all the women in my dojo wear a sports bra (as far as I know because I haven't done any specific observations ) I guess that's what they think is comfortable. And actually if anything runs well durig the lesson then I do not give a damn.

Jorgen
Estonian Aikikai
Riveta Sportsclub

Originally posted by tedward I think I can vouch for most of when I say the difference between fake and real is always obvious and that more than 95% of men prefer real to fake.

If it's always obvious, and 95% of men prefer live to memorex, then why is it such a huge industry? Why are breast implants the #1 _high school_ graduation gift?

Back on topic (sort of):

Another way to do the ikkyo type of pin is to put the inside knee into the ribs rather than the arm pit. It's my preferred way, but I often describe it as "less polite".

I like it because it gives me a better view of uke. It also gives me more options should uke become really serious about rolling out of the pin and I'm not serious enough about keeping them there to want to disclocate their elblow.

Best Regards,