the hakama,why cant we all get along?

Yes. He actually insisted on it for everyone during pre-war training. Things loosened up a bit post war...but he always wore one, from what I understand.

Best,
Ron

Manos Saha wrote: Did O sensei wear hakama?

Yes

And he also bowed.

Bronson

Jennifer Yabut wrote: ...Isn't it proper etiquette for a visitor to simply abide by the dojo's rules, and *not* try to impose what *you* do at your home dojo?...

hey jen
i agree...i think we all do. and this goes beyond 'what not to wear' but also in practicing as a guest at the dojo. i was taught that when visiting a dojo, the style might be a little different, so try to do that style. i come across visitors saying 'in the dojo i'm from we do it this way'. or 'in my old dojo, we did it like this' .. jeez. go back to your dojo then.

its been said a few times in this thread and others, 'their house, their rules.'

What a question! O-Sensei wore hakama even when he was getting "lei'd"!

"Defeat means to defeat the mind of contention that we harbor within."

-The Man, Himself

Ron Tisdale wrote: Yes. He actually insisted on it for everyone during pre-war training. Things loosened up a bit post war...but he always wore one, from what I understand. Best, Ron

Not quite "always" apparently

YIKES!

Hmmm...I shower corrected...uh, I mean STAND, I stand corrected...

Best,
Ron

few days ago, we baited (with the promise of food and beer) Howard Popkin Sensei (daito ryu) to teach at our dojo. He said we wanted us to see his feet so he didn't wear the hakama. None of us wore our hakama and we all had good time. None of us gave much thought on the thing. Most of our focus were on sensei teaching, which was where it should be. A few days later, we hosted another group, Systema. The folks shown up wore various kind of camo outfit (must be a Russian thing). The camo didn't bring out the color of my eyes so I opted for sweat pants and t-shirt. I felt naked without my gi and hakama. However, when a bunch of big, nasty looking guys shown up, that feeling went away very quickly. We had great time with the Systema folks who didn't bow or high-five or any other things, other than genuinely enjoy practicing their art, and we, in turn, genuinely enjoy learning new and unusual ways of doing things.

I wondered if somebody have made camo hakama.

If I invite someone to visit me in my house (OK, I have no house, but lets stick to this picture :-), I wouldn't want to speak the whole evening about myself...
...maybe I'm a selfish host wanting the guest to carry the outside world in the living-room, when he just wants to observer this house...
...Shoshin should be a term to both sides...

But lets try a matrix where "open mind" will lead to:
Visitor | Host
-------------------
No | No => Disaster
No | Yes => Visitor may be PITA to Host; Host can learn, Visitor not
Yes | No => Both can have a great time; Visitor can lern, Host not
Yes | Yes => That's the world, I'm dreaming of...

The only way I can get my oldest son in the dojo is if he doesn't have to wear a gi. No problem there. My youngest son seems to like his gi. No problem there. When we go to aikido seminars we always show up in a gi. Sometimes I wear my hakama, sometimes not. Personally, I don't care what I'm wearing as long as I'm training.

Phi Truong wrote: I wondered if somebody have made camo hakama.

Yup.

Phi Truong wrote: I wondered if somebody have made camo hakama.

Coming from snow-camo:
http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/3806/snowcamo5cr.jpg
I hope you can accept cow-(camo)-hakama:
http://fy.chalmers.se/~frtae/aikido/...y/history1.jpg

O Sensei without hakama:

Jack Sharp wrote: for those hwo understand me,AWESOME,and those hwo don't,TRY HARDER!!! JACK

I wonder if this is part of the problem?

Cito Maramba wrote: Yup.

Oh my...isn't that...special. Almost as "attractive" as this "American-style" one:

Well, I suppose I'm wrong then about the Hakama being used to hide foot and leg movement. Next time my Sensai "spars" with me while wearing a Hakama, and I catch a knee to the gut, I'll know it didn't have anything to do with the Hakam hiding his stance.

Anthony Stebbins wrote: Well, I suppose I'm wrong then about the Hakama being used to hide foot and leg movement. Next time my Sensai "spars" with me while wearing a Hakama, and I catch a knee to the gut, I'll know it didn't have anything to do with the Hakam hiding his stance.

I'm not saying it doesn't hide the feet; I'm just saying that hiding the feet wasn't the purpose for the thing.

Kinda like me taking a Benadryl when I can't sleep. It does make me drowsy but making people drowsy isn't what it was meant for

Bronson

Jerome Cervantes wrote: hey jen i agree...i think we all do. and this goes beyond 'what not to wear' but also in practicing as a guest at the dojo. i was taught that when visiting a dojo, the style might be a little different, so try to do that style. i come across visitors saying 'in the dojo i'm from we do it this way'. or 'in my old dojo, we did it like this' .. jeez. go back to your dojo then. its been said a few times in this thread and others, 'their house, their rules.'

My version of this is - well - that's different from how I'm used to doing it and boy do I feel clumsy...
More exposure to different ways of doing things fills your "toolbox" with lots of "tools".. While doing this I hope not to be too much of a "tool" myself...
W

Walter Martindale wrote: My version of this is - well - that's different from how I'm used to doing it and boy do I feel clumsy...

hi walter

i agree. i've got that clumsy feeling all the time!!!! :P

like you i try to do the technique the way the instructor shows. some don't, and that's where my beef is.

but i digress :P

back to topic...

I don't have a haukuma not can I spell It.

David

David Skaggs wrote: I don't have a haukuma not can I spell It. David

too much ukemi :P

I think that the hakama helps to improve your posture, among other things.

The white keikogi and the black hakama meet at the center. From the center and downward is the flow that gives you balance and stability, illustrated by the hakama, and from the center and up is what you create, such as aikido techniques, illustrated by the white keikogi.

So the white and the black are like heaven and earth, and your center is in the very middle of that universe.

Also, as many others have said - it looks cool

One thing I find interesting is that the hakama is not just a military garment. It's formal wear and includes many varieties of which the aikido hakama is just one. It seems to have strong associations with education. For example female schoolteachers in the Meiji era wore hakamas based on those worn in the Imperial court. That probably had very little to do with combat and a lot more to do with being a traditional form of smart clothing. A style called the onna-bakama was worn by female students in the Taisho era. You can also see them worn in shrines and on many formal occasions such as weddings and coming of age ceremonies. Music teachers often wear hakama when teaching traditional instruments and at a graduation ceremony I attended on Sunday, all of the female sensei with graduating classes wore hakama.

I was asked to wear an andon-hakama (without the divided legs) late last year while presenting a moon-viewing party for international students in Mito. They all seem to promote "strong hara" and give an authoritative image (I got told I was "shibui" while wearing the andon-hakama by the way). In Japanese culture, romantic notions like go-rin (the five morals of Confucianism) are often associated with the five front pleats while chū-kō (loyalty and fidelity) get assigned to the box-pleat at the back. (By the way, the onna-bakama my colleagues wore had four pleats at the back, but I suspect that that had something to do with the bustle of the kimono obi underneath -- or maybe women are more virtuous than men).

It's interesting to see how the hakama fits into Japanese culture and aikido in particular. A sensei once told me that the hakama is worn for other people to see so I'd go with whatever fits the learning environment. Depending upon the level of formality and the culture in your dojo, the hakama could even have no pleats like this one…


STOP! …Hakama time!

well i quite aikido,im tired of the division,im goin back to KARATE, atleast there i can train for advanacement in technique and rank and not train for some pants that some people have put WAY to much on.remember what the Osensei said "aikido is for everyone". well not if the fairness and equallity he preached is warped for someones vanity!belts are belts and pants are pants! when i was in tokyo i went to a judo dojo and those folkd called themslves players.sure there was senority but the whole ranking thing had no bearing on them atall!i had soooo much fun,however it is hard to have fun when there is the pretension of hey your dressed wrong! like i said I QUITE AIKIDO BECAUSE OF MY EXPERIENCES WITH 5 DOJO'S AND NONE WHERE CONSISTENT WITH THE OTHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If You Are Gonna Do It,do It Right! Make The Rules Universal.!!!! That Way There Is Peace Love And Harmony,not,segregation, Vanity And Ill Will.one World One Rule One Word..........peace