Is it me, or is it getting hypocritical in here?

Having recently read through several interesting threads and noting the posters and their comments, I cannot help but ask, is it getting a little hypocritical in here?

For example, I think we should train to create world peace, but f^#% those IS jerks. I enjoy many posts here on the aikiweb, some from people I respect, some from people with whom I have disagreements, and some from people who are like car accidents... I choose to respond when I read something of interest and I ignore that which I find invalid. Some posters make great arguments for poor theories, others make poor arguments for great theories.

However, I have noticed of late a move to vilify, demean, and in some cases simply misrepresent points to create an argument. Seriously, why would you comment on kanji if you do not know the meaning unless you are specifically trying to re-define the original meaning...

Maybe I just have the sarcasms, but I am seriously interested in hearing some of the justification for these individuals to post the comments they post. I'll keep it simple, but going back to my earlier remarks, for those of you who harbor a prejudice against aikido people who train IS, how do you rationalize your advocation for cooperative training to create world peace and choose to exclude a population of aikido people? For those of you who post without at least first googling the terminology about which you are pontificating, how do you rationalize the invalid claims you make?

I enjoy aikiweb and I enjoy the myriad of perspectives and positions we represent. Except I don't want to hear from IS people, or mud bloods. Klingons too. and Phi. Definitely Phi is out.

I advocate a separate forum for Phi related discussions.

Due to the irreconcilable differences on all sides, I propose the art of Aikido should split into a two-party system like Republicans and Democrats to represent their vastly different visions for the art. We are at war people. Pick a side!

At the least, the IS camp can go troll on another martial art forum or create their own website/forum to expouse their crazy theories.

seriously though, I dont really understand all the ruckus. I am an outsider looking in, but I do not get where the problem is. It seems like both 'sides' are arguing the age old approaches of working on things from the outside in, or the dreaded inside out approach. 'modern aikido'/real aikido works on principles from big/external waza and practices and develops until it becomes smaller and smaller. The 'other side' of IS weirdos are working towards the same principles but from practicing very small, subtle, sensitivity/touchy feely hippy side of things with progressively more resistence to work up to the outer manifestations of waza or technique. No wonder they cant learn from each other!

Now granted there are passionate personalities of all kinds on every side (I actually dont believe there are just two sides, but more exactly like 6... or was it infinite?) but that is part of what I like about this site. whatever though, i need to stop getting drawn into alls yous guys drama and go practice.

Jon Reading wrote: Having recently read through several interesting threads and noting the posters and their comments, I cannot help but ask, is it getting a little hypocritical in here? For example, I think we should train to create world peace, but f^#% those IS jerks. I enjoy many posts here on the aikiweb, some from people I respect, some from people with whom I have disagreements, and some from people who are like car accidents... I choose to respond when I read something of interest and I ignore that which I find invalid. Some posters make great arguments for poor theories, others make poor arguments for great theories. However, I have noticed of late a move to vilify, demean, and in some cases simply misrepresent points to create an argument. Seriously, why would you comment on kanji if you do not know the meaning unless you are specifically trying to re-define the original meaning... Maybe I just have the sarcasms, but I am seriously interested in hearing some of the justification for these individuals to post the comments they post. I'll keep it simple, but going back to my earlier remarks, for those of you who harbor a prejudice against aikido people who train IS, how do you rationalize your advocation for cooperative training to create world peace and choose to exclude a population of aikido people? For those of you who post without at least first googling the terminology about which you are pontificating, how do you rationalize the invalid claims you make? I enjoy aikiweb and I enjoy the myriad of perspectives and positions we represent. Except I don't want to hear from IS people, or mud bloods. Klingons too. and Phi. Definitely Phi is out.

Without getting into particulars, I think some folks are frustrated that many conversations tend to find a very familiar rut and it bleeds out in interesting ways. There's also a veracity on the part of those who train in IS which I think tends to eclipse the message. My short-sighted view of things, anyway.

I advocate a separate forum for Phi related discussions.

I would love to see a forum of Phi-related topics! Call it Fibonacci's Cabbage-Talk!

Aikiweb has become a lot less fun to read lately.

I feel kind of bad for the individuals that feel the need to pour thousands of words per week into defending themselves (from their own perspective). It can't be good for the nervous system to have to check for new attacks each day and then craft long, emotional responses to each one.

Stephen Trinkle wrote: I advocate a separate forum for Phi related discussions.

"I had to mark him down" has become a commonly used phrase in this household thanks to Phi....

However, I have noticed of late a move to vilify, demean, and in some cases simply misrepresent points to create an argument.

'of late' -- are you new?

I don't recall any time when aikiweb was more civil in the time I've been here. Actually, I think I mean that literally. It seems to have gotten less crazy lately. Either that or I've just gotten better at figuring out which threads I'm going to find rude or stupid before I start, and at ceasing to follow them when they lose my interest. But in any case, it's ALWAYS been a pretty rude place with people name calling and making personal attacks and loads of passive-aggressive stuff, at least since I've been following it. It's always been a matter of sifting through the garbage to find occasional really cool discussions. If anything it seems oddly peaceful lately, honestly...

People are passionate about their stuffs. (Obligatory Phi reference.) They're bound to argue. Passionate debate is never bloodless, even among competent people who respect each other.

And be honest about what the internet is; It's a mix of the competent and the incompetent, the informed and the poseurs, the people who really want to know and the people who really do know and the people who really want everyone else to think they know but don't want to do the work to find out.

How is this ever going to be tidy? If you want tidy, go to church. Actually, no, don't. Those ladies and gents make us look like a pat-a-cake circle.

I would much rather read a forum where person X, who has 30 years understanding multiple martial arts in depth, understands the language, and has the respect of the masters of other arts--and we have more than a few of those here, do you get how astoundingly lucky you are? 30 years ago you'd never even hear of these guys--completely shreds person Y who has frittered around on the edge of the same topics without ever really going deep or understanding the issues. Even if the interaction between X and Y isn't pretty, I'll learn from it. I'd learn nothing at all from X going, "Isn't that nice. Well, I value your opinion."

So take the bad with the good, ignore the trolls, and don't think the process of getting to world peace was ever going to be peaceful.

Brett Zimmerman wrote: Due to the irreconcilable differences on all sides, I propose the art of Aikido should split into a two-party system like Republicans and Democrats to represent their vastly different visions for the art. We are at war people. Pick a side!

Is there a Phi for the IS party? I'm not paying a Phi . I think we should have the elephant for the emblem of the IS party as we know what one looks like

Jon Reading wrote: I enjoy aikiweb and I enjoy the myriad of perspectives and positions we represent. Except I don't want to hear from IS people, or mud bloods. Klingons too. and Phi. Definitely Phi is out.

hey! don't group me with those IS people. they are a bunch of weirdos, always talking about heaven/earth/man, aiki, in-yo ho and hi-di ho. what a bunch of lunatics! say, when is the next party you bunch of lunatics? ya, definitely not with those weirdos. group me with the Klingon. they got cool outfits and weaponry. you know exactly where you stand or not stand with the Klingon.
"I am NOT a merry MAN!" - Worf

"Phi"? "IS"? Go away for a while and all heck breaks loose .... anyone care to fill me in?

Nothing beats being called a terrorist.... Yes it did happen.

I'm with you Jon...absolutely. Hypocrisy is alive and well here. Heck everyone is a hypocrite, the problem is when you don't realize it!

I personally subscribe to the theory of "middle road". That is, some IS, some "world peace" all coupled with a bit of common sense and reality to boot.

I've met IS folks that can't fight, fighting guys that can't IS, and the "harmony and peace" guys that want us all to get along no matter what dammit!

I have found, for me at least that it is important to find balance in between all this, don't take it too serious and enjoy the ride and the discoveries along the way. I have met some wonderful friends and some of the most interesting folks in budo over the years and it makes it all worthwhile.

But yea...the hypocrisy is big time right now if you ask me!

I argued alot with the IS guys...well mainly Dan and Mike a few years back, but after meeting most of the main players, I saw, felt, and communicated where they were coming from. So I have no issues with them, and like to get together to train with them when I can and I am not wasting there time.

I think though that for many, I sense, that they feel threatened by the vast number of folks on here that have jumped on board with them. Some how as if it is a threat to aikido. Maybe it is. Maybe it isn't. If your living a lie and it is caving in your world of illusion it can be a scary place to be. However, if you have things in proper perspective...well I think it is no big deal and not a threat...who knows.

I think there is room for a lot of view points in aikido....to a degree. I think it is up to each of us to find what works for us. One thing I am certain of though, is that in the spirit of what we do, we should have an open mind.

Michael Gallagher wrote: "Phi"? "IS"? Go away for a while and all heck breaks loose .... anyone care to fill me in?

once upon a time, which is rather recently or a bit older than recently or a near distance past, a war raging between the IS (internal stuffs)/aiki and the i-don't-know-what-the-hell-you-people-talking-about groups. it was a vicious war, with dead accounts, mangled egos, MIA (missing in aikido), KIA (ki in action), brothers against sisters, dogs against cats, chickens against turtles (which tasted like chicken). it was beyond ugly. there were aikido innocents (very rare like virgins) caught in the cross fire. so into the middle of this raging war walked a bozo named phi who was dense beyond belief, because only a fool would do such thing. so this phi bozo pulled a yojimbo stunt, but with the Clint Eastwood cool look, but not the Bruce Willis disaster. at the moment, the war is at a stalemate which doesn't make phi happy, because he can't collect any aiki money at all and get the heck out of dodge.

so there you have it!

Dammit Phi.

I think Kevin is getting to the point I am trying to solicit. Once I read an extreme perspective that are emotionally and not empirically supported I get suspicious. Once that extreme position conflicts with other positions about which those authors also post they lose credibility with me.

The two examples about which I originally posted we simply picked because at the time I started the thread there would conflicting comments in the popular thread ongoing about these two topics. For me, the examples are more symptomatic of a larger issue. And it has gon on for a while, and I guess posters don't realize that you can read through their posts or they forget what they write, or whatever. All I know is I've found myself skipping posts from some individuals because I just don't think they think about what they write anymore.

Man I sound like a curmudgeon.

Phi Truong wrote: once upon a time, which is rather recently or a bit older than recently or a near distance past, a war raging between the IS (internal stuffs)/aiki and the i-don't-know-what-the-hell-you-people-talking-about groups. it was a vicious war, with dead accounts, mangled egos, MIA (missing in aikido), KIA (ki in action), brothers against sisters, dogs against cats, chickens against turtles (which tasted like chicken). it was beyond ugly. there were aikido innocents (very rare like virgins) caught in the cross fire. so into the middle of this raging war walked a bozo named phi who was dense beyond belief, because only a fool would do such thing. so this phi bozo pulled a yojimbo stunt, but with the Clint Eastwood cool look, but not the Bruce Willis disaster. at the moment, the war is at a stalemate which doesn't make phi happy, because he can't collect any aiki money at all and get the heck out of dodge. so there you have it!

This guy Phi is obviously receiving messages directly from the Kami! Go Phi!

Matthew Gano wrote: There's also a veracity on the part of those who train in IS which I think tends to eclipse the message.

Is "veracity" the word you meant to use here? Because I don't understand how veracity could eclipse a message.

Perhaps he meant "ferocity"?

Or Sex in the City?