When is it ok to hurt?

No.

Ron

Szczepan Janczuk wrote: IF... aikidoka disarm first time an attacker, he will never give a bat back to him we aikidoka may look stupid, but we are not LOL.

I know I've either read or heard a story about an aikidoka who disarmed somebody with a knife and then had to catch themselves as they almost bowed the knife back to the attacker We react how we train I guess

Bronson

Personally if someone attacked me with a knife I would have no problem using lethal force to protect myself.

If someone attacks you with a knife, you wouldn't know they had a knife until you've been stabbed with it.

* Perhaps there are different interpretations among different dojos? *

You betcha! Atemi can/will hurt your ass if it is appropriate. (You gotta decide on the "appropriate" part, then defend it legally)
You got a bat, I will "probably" hurt you to get it out of your hands. When more developed, better skilled, an "allround better,kinder,gentler person...etc. etc. I may be able to do it without.
Right now? Just happy you couldn't clock me. (sorry 'bout your arm/eye/throat...etc.etc.
shrug
People go down further on my "to care for" list with aggressive behavior....Just my smallmindedness
at this point in my life, I suppose.
Peace
Lan

Further thought, I don't like to hurt people.
I will, if forced to. The batman has put himself at the bottom of the list to be protected. ie: Bystanders, next targets, YOURSELF, and lastly this bozo.
Protect others, protect yourself, and do no more than you have to to stop the violence.
Stretch a bit, and consider if it would/could be a time when you must stop him
RIGHT F$%^&&ing NOW!
Example, small kids present or in his proximity. Most of the "RFN" techniques are , ummm, abrupt. Sometimes damaging. Perhaps lethal....
You do what seems right, at the time.
Lan

Sticky

Second thing is, after disarming first time, we immediatly control attacker with a pin or choke.In the situation, where call for police isn't a option, choke is preferred, to make agressor unconscious. So aikidoka have time to quietly unifie himself with Univers.

roflmao! Thats excellent..

Bronson Diffin wrote: I know I've either read or heard a story about an aikidoka who disarmed somebody with a knife and then had to catch themselves as they almost bowed the knife back to the attacker We react how we train I guess Bronson

Lol I can see it now,

Guy comes in to attack skii you perform sankyo take the knife... bow it back to him. He comes at you shomen you do shihonage... bow it back to him... He comes at you yokomen you perform ikkyo... "Ok it's my turn to be uke now!"

Keith Kolb wrote: Wynand: You have to be more specific. <snip>

I told you its a weak example, just check some of the other posts around here, you will find that people can regularly and easily bring the "spiritual harmony" and "kicking ass when you need to" parts together - in harmony!

But yeah, giving the bat back every time and progressively destroying your attacker is not realy the image I wanted to convey, rather that you have the choice to ramp up your response proportionally to that of the attacker as opposed to either destroying him outright or doing something thats innefectual as your first or only response.

Atemi is very much up to the dojo you attend, I have seen realy soft dojos that practice great atemi and realy hard dojos that practice realy crappy atemi. Also consider the balance breaking that can result from dodging a well timed atemi and the damage that can result from not dodging...

One of our first-kyu students told the following story on himself:

His wife talked him into attending her swing-dancing classes. They were being taught on a pretty advanced level and he felt like he had two left feet for most of the evening. Then they finally got to a move where you swirl your partner around behind you and to the front. Suddenly everything clicked, here was something he could *do*, so he swirled his partner around--and caught himself just in time with her hand held up in front of him, his fingers resting lightly on top of hers, ready to throw her koteoroshi....

It's a bit scary, the habits one gets into in training. Perhaps it would be a good exercise to sometimes do the weapon takeaway drills with alternating uke and nage, so that the person who takes the weapon gets to keep it, not hand it back?

Mary Kaye

Mary Kuhner wrote: Perhaps it would be a good exercise to sometimes do the weapon takeaway drills with alternating uke and nage, so that the person who takes the weapon gets to keep it, not hand it back?

I like that very much. And if nage doesn't succeed at taking the weapon, nage gets to try again

=wl

Mary Kuhner wrote: It's a bit scary, the habits one gets into in training. Perhaps it would be a good exercise to sometimes do the weapon takeaway drills with alternating uke and nage, so that the person who takes the weapon gets to keep it, not hand it back?

I would normally write off the story about a policeman handing back the gun/knife except that I heard if first from Ikeda Hiroshi and confirmed it with two policeman buddies, one of whom said something like, "Yeah, happens all the time. You do what you're trained to do!"

In my classes, either we alternate UKE/NAGE as above, or, for testing protocol, I have students put good distance between themselves and UKE upon the disarm and then set the knife on the mat and walk toward UKE who has to cross a distance to retrieve the weapon.