Race and Aikido

Edwin Neal wrote: thank you michael, maybe one day i will be worthy... i take issue with the issue that many seem to tacitly support that aikido is "complex" and takes a long time to be used effectively... i don't find this to be true unless one is indoctrinated to believe it is true... is it more complex than say karate? a little in that kicking and punching are intuitive and even kids can do it with no training, while grappling/wrestling is a little less intuitive... so while i am willing to grant some additional time... from my experience with a qualified instructor and with functionality as a primary goal a sincere student can achieve this in a few months to a year depending upon the ability of the student... why does everyone think/believe that functionality only comes after years and years of practice, if ever?

I'm afraid I would go the other way - saying all arts are complex - not easy. Perhaps a child can swing their arms and legs from early on (yet you'd be surprised how few can actually do even this), however punching and kicking is an entirely different matter. This becomes even more true when you consider how many years it truly requires to gain any kind of real (i.e. dependable) practicality concerning power and timing - which are the seeds of all viable strikes and kicks, etc., within real combative situations. Nobody of skill (i.e. skill under real-life combative conditions) comes to obtaining viable punches and kicks via the short and easy route.

However, anyone can indeed "win" a few "contests" (even ones on the street) while flailing their arms around or muscling the hell out of some poor chump's arm via ikkyo. Nevertheless, that doesn't make them skilled - nor does that mean the art was easy to learn. It just makes one lucky and keeps one foolish enough to universalize one's favor in chance.

Oh, and so as not to hijack the thread - here are some more videos on Aikido:

http://www.senshincenter.com/pages/video.html

http://www.aikiweb.com/columns/thegr...e/2005_11.html

James Smith wrote: Doug that question is serious. I noticed alot of people look at this page and don't say anything. Proabably because they have zero black people and somehow feel embarrased.

James, I was a police officer for many many years. During those years, I had the opportunity to work with officers of different races, religions, cultures, languages, and so on and so on. What made all of us officers bond was the fact that we all worked for the same goal, wore the same uniform, and had very similar problems and interests. This is not to say that we gave up our individuality. BUT, we did look past the skin color, accent in the voice, color of the eyes, ect and realized that we were all cops.
I went through all of that to say this. Over the past years in my current dojo, I have had the honor or practicing with both men and women or different ages, colors, races, cultures ect. Wanna know something? When I walk into the dojo, I see only white gis, black hakamas and friendly faces. I see people that are happy that I came to practice. I see people who miss me when I travel and who feel my pain when I have taken some serious nikkyo from our sensei.
MY friend, it makes no difference if your comment was made out of jest, sarcasim, ignorance or anything else. I think you need to look deep inside yourself and ask "Why?"

FOR EVERYONE ELSE...... I began this thread because I wanted to see videos and to show videos of our style of Aikido. Can we get back to the subject of this thread?

It is so sad that people are not aware of Donovan Waite Shihan of the USAF, who has trained under Yamada Shihan, the man is a BEAST. He is just amazing, and yes he is black.

Life isn't as simple as black and white you know

In Scotland we're generally a light blue colour because of the cold. Do we get any recognition as a minority? No we do not. It was a black day for us when we were blackballed from the coloured people association. We were green with envy

(is it too early to mention that Jesus was an ethnic minority? Even though he's painted as whiter than white )

Here's a few wee vids with some nice basic kuzushi and redirection. link

perhaps all this should be moved to a new thread, as it would appear no one is posting video clips of aikido, which i think was a good idea and has been somewhat sidetracked for a debate about racial issues. anyone who is or has admin control of these forums should perhaps think about moving it or renaming the thread so we can post a new one SPECIFICALLY for vids.

just a thought.

James Smith wrote: How many black people do you have in your dojos?

4 or 5 not sure off the top of my head

Drew Mercer wrote: perhaps all this should be moved to a new thread, as it would appear no one is posting video clips of aikido, which i think was a good idea and has been somewhat sidetracked for a debate about racial issues. anyone who is or has admin control of these forums should perhaps think about moving it or renaming the thread so we can post a new one SPECIFICALLY for vids. just a thought.

That's an excellent idea... sorry to all about contributing to the topic "drift"..

David please join the discussion about the complexity/functionality of aikido in the aikido self defense thread... i think we have some common ground, but have to define the terms and playing field...

Where is James did we scare him away???

Lorraine DiAnne Shihan

Edwin Neal wrote: Where is James did we scare him away???

Mr. Neal, I think that James may not have figured out where this thread has been moved to.

I would like everyone for participating in the vid posting thread. Please come back to visit it and post more vids.

We should all be hearing from "James" in the near future. His instructors have been "instructing" him appropriately for the last couple of days. He needs guidance. He's getting a chance to learn and mend his ways. Let's all help, if he's willing...

I looked at this thread because I thought it might be something useful. Like someone teaching Aikido as a tool to help a community overcome racism. Boy was I suprised to see such stupidity in the opening post.
it is highly offensive.

Chuck, i asked him where his dojo was as i will be in texas in march and was hoping to meet him, and possibly work out... do you have some info that could help me... i will be mostly in the Austin, and San Antonio area...

James Smith wrote: I didn't know black people did Aikido. Anyway heres a page with clips. http://www.shodokanaikido.pwp.blueyo...do/videos.html

James S.,

My sensei, whom I love like an uncle and for whom I have the utmost respect, is a black man. Our senior student, who is starting his own dojo on the other coast of Florida, is a Jamaican guy. These two people were the first to help me on my path as a martial artist, and I am lucky as hell to know them. I sincerely hope that you get the chance to meet them sometime.

Edwin Neal wrote: from my experience with a qualified instructor and with functionality as a primary goal a sincere student can achieve this in a few months to a year depending upon the ability of the student... why does everyone think/believe that functionality only comes after years and years of practice, if ever?

Edwin,
all I can say is that you must be training with instructors the likes of whom I have yet to see and with students of an ability I have yet to encounter. I travel around quite a bit teaching and training, have visited Japan, have trained with many of the top instructors in the world and I haven't seen this... You must be seeing very different folks than I am seeing...

Or, possibly, or you have an unrealistic idea about what is functional. There is a reason that one of the longest running threads on the forum has to do with whether Aikido actually works... As it happens I come firmly down on the side of the argument that it does, indeed, work. But the time frames you are talking about are completely unrealistic in my own experience.

If you are talking about "a few months to a year" under an excellent instructor... well, let's say you have a mixed martial artist, a Jeet Kun Do practitioner, a contact karate student, and a judoka... all with the same amount of experience in terms of hours of training under some hypothetically equal group of instructors... The Aikido fellow would be the VERY LAST one I'd choose to have next to me in a fight. I am sorry, in a year or under of equal intensity training the other guys will all be able to beat the Aikido guy.

Now later on... as the Aikido student understands what he is really going on in his technique, things start to change... but I have never seen this happen in under a year and my own teacher is considered to be one of the more martially oriented of the Aikido teachers around...

George lets continue this discussion on this thread as i feel the other have some similar feelings:

http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9710

Would you people stop playing his game. Nothing on this thread is worth replying to. We all know that black people do aikido so there's no reason to prove it. Stop wasting your time.

This is the worse topic I have ever seen on here. This kind of primative topics really do bring down the class of this site. This is worse than all those nuts who waste their time worrying about how Steven Seagal does his Aikido, even though they prolly never will study under him or his students. Listen race isnt a factor in anything, only if you make it.......O'Sensei was Japanese, Shaolin Monks were Chinese, and hell Steven Seagal is American and I dont think anyone is going to say anything degrading about their skills........So lets drop it please.
p.s. Im sure plenty of you will just love that part about Seagal...Wont you LMAO

WHAT steven seagal is Black??? i'm sorry i'm confused...;-))

You were all troll food - people.

hey i miss james, trolls are an opportunity to practice my no touch throws!!!

hmmm, been away training for the weekend.

Yes, James is a troll. I'll still speak out even if it feeds the troll if I find it important enough.

Yes, Don (hope you are well), I did open a post about AAs in aikido. Please note however, the extreme differences in tone, objective, and the quality of posts in that thread.

George, thank you for the kind words.

For comparison, here is the thread that Don is referring to:
http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4775

Best,
Ron

I hear there are a couple of Jews who are into aikido too.....

Ron,

I just took the time to re-read the thread that you linked to above. That was very good. Thanks for reminding us.

Best Regards,