The role of Aikido Federation in your country.

Hi all!

I was wondering what the role of any National Aikido Federation should play. Should they aim to unite all Ryus of Aikido together??

In my country, the Aikido Federation does not seem to do that. It seems like an exclusive club by itself, recognising only those dojos that it set up. It has its on Chief Instructor, Instructors & Assistant Instructors. It operates like an exclusive club. It does not take care of any other Aikido Ryus which is not their own.

There are currently about 10 different Ryus/Clubs of Aikido in my country. And this "Federation" is just one of them. Shouldn't it be aiming to unite all Aikido Ryus together?? Shouldn't all the other 9 Ryus be under its umbrella?? Shouldn't it be concern with the overall development of Aikido in the entire country??

I am puzzled why it is called the "Aikido Federation" of my country when it does not even have any affiliation to all other Aikido clubs other than its own.

The international Aikido Federation is a blanket federation in which many (but not all) of the Aikikai dojo are under.
http://www.aikido-international.org/...pper&Itemid=32

The IAF was founded by the Doshu.To be a member of the IAF, or any of it's member nation federations you have to be affiliated by Hombu Aikikai. The president is the Doshu.
The IAF presently has a rule that only one federation from each nation will be recognized by the IAF to represent Hombu in that nation.
To have a school recognized be any federation under IAF you must have lineage through that federation, and possibly its Shihan.
The IAF's purpose was to help give the world access to high ranking Hombu instructors. The Uchi Deshi of O'sensei are the founders of many of the Member nation's Federation. The goal was so that every country would have access to the Aikikai Shihan.
The goal is to not just spread Aikido, but good Aikido.

Your school won't have affiliation to any other dojo outside of the IAF, but if will have lineage with any other Aikikai style dojo. So long as your black belt is through Aikikai Doshu, it will be recognized as a belt in Aikikai. (You can't expect Yoshinkan or Suenaka schools to recognize an Aikikai belt either A black belt in Aikikai doesn't mean you are proficient in other styles Aikido, it means you know Aikikai style Aikido.)The same can not be said for kyu ranks however. Kyu is only recognized if it within the IAF, other school's kyu is not recognized because they might have different standards for belting.

Ponder the meaning and implications of the use of the ryu appellation and consider how that helps in the 'grand unification' ideal.

Being proud of a lineage is one thing but does that fit with the term ryu and the associated 'baggage'?

To some the distinction is trivial or non-existent while to others it means a great deal indeed.

Maggie Schill wrote: The international Aikido Federation is a blanket federation in which many (but not all) of the Aikikai dojo are under. http://www.aikido-international.org/...pper&Itemid=32 The IAF was founded by the Doshu.To be a member of the IAF, or any of it's member nation federations you have to be affiliated by Hombu Aikikai. The president is the Doshu. The IAF presently has a rule that only one federation from each nation will be recognized by the IAF to represent Hombu in that nation. To have a school recognized be any federation under IAF you must have lineage through that federation, and possibly its Shihan. The IAF's purpose was to help give the world access to high ranking Hombu instructors. The Uchi Deshi of O'sensei are the founders of many of the Member nation's Federation. The goal was so that every country would have access to the Aikikai Shihan. The goal is to not just spread Aikido, but good Aikido. Your school won't have affiliation to any other dojo outside of the IAF, but if will have lineage with any other Aikikai style dojo. So long as your black belt is through Aikikai Doshu, it will be recognized as a belt in Aikikai. (You can't expect Yoshinkan or Suenaka schools to recognize an Aikikai belt either A black belt in Aikikai doesn't mean you are proficient in other styles Aikido, it means you know Aikikai style Aikido.)The same can not be said for kyu ranks however. Kyu is only recognized if it within the IAF, other school's kyu is not recognized because they might have different standards for belting.

Perhaps a more appropriate name would be "Aikikai Federation". sigh.....

By the way, the founder of my Ryu was an Uchi Deshi of O-Sensei.
After O-Sensei's death, however, he broke away from Hombu and established his own Ryu. Is this still not considered lineage??

Robert M Watson Jr wrote: Ponder the meaning and implications of the use of the ryu appellation and consider how that helps in the 'grand unification' ideal. Being proud of a lineage is one thing but does that fit with the term ryu and the associated 'baggage'? To some the distinction is trivial or non-existent while to others it means a great deal indeed.

I recognise the differences in physical techniques. But this, to me, is immaterial. What matters, and what should unite all Aikido Ryus together should be Aikido's philosophy of Harmony & Love.

It seems that World Aikido will never be truely united, unlike in Judo where most Judo clubs come under the umbrella of the Kodokan for lineage or the International Judo Federation for the sporting aspect.

If as you say, the founder of your school broke away from Hombu, why do you expect the Aikikai federation in Singapore to "unite" with your school? The decision to break away from Aikikai was his.

Randall Lim wrote: Hi all! I was wondering what the role of any National Aikido Federation should play. Should they aim to unite all Ryus of Aikido together?? In my country, the Aikido Federation does not seem to do that. It seems like an exclusive club by itself, recognising only those dojos that it set up. It has its on Chief Instructor, Instructors & Assistant Instructors. It operates like an exclusive club. It does not take care of any other Aikido Ryus which is not their own. There are currently about 10 different Ryus/Clubs of Aikido in my country. And this "Federation" is just one of them. Shouldn't it be aiming to unite all Aikido Ryus together?? Shouldn't all the other 9 Ryus be under its umbrella?? Shouldn't it be concern with the overall development of Aikido in the entire country?? I am puzzled why it is called the "Aikido Federation" of my country when it does not even have any affiliation to all other Aikido clubs other than its own.

There is a saying that in every issue, there is the public reason, the private reason and then there is the real reason. The issue is the many groups and why they aren't united - the real reason is that they aren't separated because of style or lineage. They are separated because of jurisdiction. Usually, all divisions are over jurisdiction or what is commonly called authority. The real question is that of protecting your own jurisdiction in order to protect your internal cohesion and viability as a group. The removal of all boundaries is a surrender of jurisdiction. The surrender of jurisdcition means that the money can go anywhere, the protection of jurisdiction is the attempt to protect the finances. All you have to do is to follow the money. I'm not suggesting this is wrong. It is the way of all humans. Groups leave the Aikikai so not to have to be accountable to their authority. In leaving, they take the money with them. If the Aikikai (which is the organization of the Founder's family) wants to protect certain ideals that they feel are essential to Aikido, they must protect their authority to enforce their ideals within their own jurisdiction. Those who leave are not accountable to the Founder's family and can do whatever they want. Some who leave make significant deviations and some don't but despite that, the issue is who will have the authority to say who does what. It is only natural that the mother organization would want to keep a say so in how the art is generally disseminated. Anyone who wants to leave is free to go. Some who go do a great job of maintaining the Founder's legacy but even so, they now control their own money. This now becomes a competition in the open market place over the funds. Again, this may not appease the idealistic but there won't be much of an Aikikai if the group breaks up into 1000 equal factions. The money will also be divided that way. The one that can control the greater portion of the money will have the greater influence and thus control it's own future better.

It is only natural that this kind of competition would ensue in the open market place. It is the way of the world. The issues aren't the same for the big groups and the little groups. The little groups want more freedom and they are inhibited by the rules made by the larger group which cannot respond to their needs so often they depart. In the larger group, the public can be assured of certain things. In the smaller independent groups, you can never know what you are getting.

Don't ever expect the larger groups to surrender jurisdiction for an idealistic idea of everyone holding hands over fences singing kumbaya. That will never happen. The larger group will discourage small split offs because this chipping away will eventually mean the end of it's organizational life. The smaller groups may want to leave in order to better serve themselves and to have more freedom and to control their own funds. Member dues, test fees and the right to generate and keep income are the hallmarks of the smaller groups. In both large and small, ego plays a part and there are good things and bad on both sides but the struggle will always continue.

As I said, this is all happening because it's normal in organizational and human relations. There are good and well intentioned people on both sides of the issue. It's an easy out to demonize the other side but the truth is that there are both good and bad examples of everything I have said. The Aikikai was first, then all other divisions follow for whatever reason. They won't support those divisions which weaken them. I think though that all should be charitable and do what they can for themselves and let the people in the open market place decide how things all work out.
Best wishes,
Jorge

Raul Rodrigo wrote: If as you say, the founder of your school broke away from Hombu, why do you expect the Aikikai federation in Singapore to "unite" with your school? The decision to break away from Aikikai was his.

Broke away or not, it is still Aikido nonetheless. Besides, the name of the federation is "Aikido Federation", and not "Aikikai Federation". We do have an "Aikikai Singapore" also.

Jorge Garcia wrote: There is a saying that in every issue, there is the public reason, the private reason and then there is the real reason. The issue is the many groups and why they aren't united - the real reason is that they aren't separated because of style or lineage. They are separated because of jurisdiction. Usually, all divisions are over jurisdiction or what is commonly called authority. The real question is that of protecting your own jurisdiction in order to protect your internal cohesion and viability as a group. The removal of all boundaries is a surrender of jurisdiction. The surrender of jurisdcition means that the money can go anywhere, the protection of jurisdiction is the attempt to protect the finances. All you have to do is to follow the money. I'm not suggesting this is wrong. It is the way of all humans. Groups leave the Aikikai so not to have to be accountable to their authority. In leaving, they take the money with them. If the Aikikai (which is the organization of the Founder's family) wants to protect certain ideals that they feel are essential to Aikido, they must protect their authority to enforce their ideals within their own jurisdiction. Those who leave are not accountable to the Founder's family and can do whatever they want. Some who leave make significant deviations and some don't but despite that, the issue is who will have the authority to say who does what. It is only natural that the mother organization would want to keep a say so in how the art is generally disseminated. Anyone who wants to leave is free to go. Some who go do a great job of maintaining the Founder's legacy but even so, they now control their own money. This now becomes a competition in the open market place over the funds. Again, this may not appease the idealistic but there won't be much of an Aikikai if the group breaks up into 1000 equal factions. The money will also be divided that way. The one that can control the greater portion of the money will have the greater influence and thus control it's own future better. It is only natural that this kind of competition would ensue in the open market place. It is the way of the world. The issues aren't the same for the big groups and the little groups. The little groups want more freedom and they are inhibited by the rules made by the larger group which cannot respond to their needs so often they depart. In the larger group, the public can be assured of certain things. In the smaller independent groups, you can never know what you are getting. Don't ever expect the larger groups to surrender jurisdiction for an idealistic idea of everyone holding hands over fences singing kumbaya. That will never happen. The larger group will discourage small split offs because this chipping away will eventually mean the end of it's organizational life. The smaller groups may want to leave in order to better serve themselves and to have more freedom and to control their own funds. Member dues, test fees and the right to generate and keep income are the hallmarks of the smaller groups. In both large and small, ego plays a part and there are good things and bad on both sides but the struggle will always continue. As I said, this is all happening because it's normal in organizational and human relations. There are good and well intentioned people on both sides of the issue. It's an easy out to demonize the other side but the truth is that there are both good and bad examples of everything I have said. The Aikikai was first, then all other divisions follow for whatever reason. They won't support those divisions which weaken them. I think though that all should be charitable and do what they can for themselves and let the people in the open market place decide how things all work out. Best wishes, Jorge

Thanks, Jorge, for your very comprehensive explanation. I buy it.
That explains this point: Unlike the Singapore Judo Federation (which is government-supported), the Aikido Federation is self-supporting.

But it does not explain this: There is also an Aikikai Singapore which is not affliated to the Aikido Federation.

Yes, Tendoryu aikido is still a branch of aikido, even if Shimizu broke away. But the Aikido Federation of Singapore is an Aikikai organization, and as such it relates only to other branches of the Aikikai. It is not expected to link up with the groups that have left the Aikikai such as Yoshinkan, Tomiki/Shudokan, Yoseikan, Iwama Ryu, Tendoryu, Manseikan, and so on. It would be nice if it did, but it doesn't have to. That isn't its job.

The Aikikai recognizes several different organizations in Singapore: Aikikai Singapore, Shinjukai and the Ueshiba Aikido Association.

Randall Lim wrote: Perhaps a more appropriate name would be "Aikikai Federation". sigh.....

No, I mind you there are many Schools outside of the IAF who are also recognized by Aikikai, and trace their lineage back to Aikikai.

Randall Lim wrote: Perhaps a more appropriate name would be "Aikikai Federation". sigh..... By the way, the founder of my Ryu was an Uchi Deshi of O-Sensei. After O-Sensei's death, however, he broke away from Hombu and established his own Ryu. Is this still not considered lineage??

Does he say he teaches Aikido?...then yes his lineage is through O'Sensei.

Does he claim to have developed his own "ryu" or martial style? ..then:
Depends. He can trace that he learned Aikido from O'sensei. But the moment he created his own martial art he created his own lineage. He can not claim O'Sensei in lineage to his Ryu. It is HIS Ryu, not O'Sensei.
He is simply just a student of O'Sensei who went off to do his own thing after the fact.

The legacy of his Ryu starts with him, rightfully as it's founder.

O'Sensei respected his teachers, but from their teaching developed his own Ryu. We respect the Founder's instructors for what they helped O'Sensei develope, but the lineage of Aikido commonly is considered to start with O'Sensei.

Semantically, I would like to ask those w/ more knowledge than me: is the word "ryu" correct in use with gendai budo as opposed to a koryu art?

There are various gendai arts who use the suffix "ryu" without major problems, Hakko-ryu jujutsu (a DRAJJ derivative) and Toyama-ryu battojutsu (Imperial Japanese Army swordmanship) comes to mind.

I don't think the use of "ryu" in a gendai budo is semantically incorrect. But I can be wrong.

Anyway, if someone more knowledgeable appears, he/she could also explain where is the frontier between a "ha" and a "ryu" for its something that I still haven't managed to figure exactly.

ryū is style
ryūha is the group of people following that style
ha is group

Ryu is still used - for example Goju-ryu karate and Tendoryu aikido - but perhaps there is a feeling of something traditional.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ry%C5%AB_(school)

Maggie Schill wrote: Does he say he teaches Aikido?...then yes his lineage is through O'Sensei.

I'm not sure this is correct. Nihon Goshin Aikido would be at least one counter example, at any rate.

Maggie Schill wrote: Does he say he teaches Aikido?...then yes his lineage is through O'Sensei. Does he claim to have developed his own "ryu" or martial style? ..then: Depends. He can trace that he learned Aikido from O'sensei. But the moment he created his own martial art he created his own lineage. He can not claim O'Sensei in lineage to his Ryu. It is HIS Ryu, not O'Sensei. He is simply just a student of O'Sensei who went off to do his own thing after the fact. The legacy of his Ryu starts with him, rightfully as it's founder. O'Sensei respected his teachers, but from their teaching developed his own Ryu. We respect the Founder's instructors for what they helped O'Sensei develope, but the lineage of Aikido commonly is considered to start with O'Sensei.

Yes, the Founder of my Ryu, Kenji Shimizu, says it is Aikido he is teaching. But a style that is characterised by softness, gentleness, smoothness & large circles, This was O-Sensei's own evolved style in his golden 70's when Shimizu was Uchi Deshi, so he claimed.

So, it is still very much Aikido.

Demetrio Cereijo wrote: Anyway, if someone more knowledgeable appears, he/she could also explain where is the frontier between a "ha" and a "ryu" for its something that I still haven't managed to figure exactly.

I'm not the one you are looking for but it appears to me that the dictionary definitions are one thing and how the words/meanings are actually used and how they are used can be very much different.

In addition what Doshu thinks about it may be different from what the Aikikai Foundation or the IAF thinks about it. Things are always more complicated than they seem.

By no means based on anything besides my own construction I use ryu is used to designate a new art while ha is used to designate a particular persons expression of an art. Generally in the koryu one obtained a level of license that permitted them to teach that art so if some one went around saying they were teaching such and such an art but did not have the appropriate license great consternation (or total ambivalence) could result.

To the OP:

A huge 'problem' with Aikido is Osensei told folks to go create their own Aikido but the formal structure of license and naming were not in place. Recall Shimizu was there when Osensei said 'That's not my Aikido!" so clearly there was a distinction in his mind.

Why not ask Shimizu why he decided to break with the Aikikai? While you are at it do us all a favor and ask him what he thought was happening when Osensei said 'That's not my Aikido!" and what that means for the rest of us?

From an interview of Shimizu by Stan Pranin:

Why did you leave Hombu Dojo?

I couldn't get along with Tohei Sensei. I feel very sorry for O-Sensei, Doshu (Kisshomaru Sensei) and Osawa Sensei. I ignored their attempts to restrain me and left the dojo. I have been independent teaching Tendo-ryu now for six years. (Tendo is the name of my hometown). I am surprised that I have managed to come this far on my own having had to go through so many risky situations since I became independent. Although this happened many years ago, Osawa Sensei of the Aikikai told me that if I had stayed there I would have become a top teacher. I said that I am what I am now because I quit the Aikikai. If I still belonged it would be like crossing the sea in a heavily laden ship. I am just a small boat. When the wind blew, my boat listed and when it rained we had to bail out water. We were always exposed to risks. This gave me a certain amount of mental and physical training.

Raul Rodrigo wrote: From an interview of Shimizu by Stan Pranin: Why did you leave Hombu Dojo? I couldn't get along with Tohei Sensei. I feel very sorry for O-Sensei, Doshu (Kisshomaru Sensei) and Osawa Sensei. I ignored their attempts to restrain me and left the dojo. I have been independent teaching Tendo-ryu now for six years. (Tendo is the name of my hometown). I am surprised that I have managed to come this far on my own having had to go through so many risky situations since I became independent. Although this happened many years ago, Osawa Sensei of the Aikikai told me that if I had stayed there I would have become a top teacher. I said that I am what I am now because I quit the Aikikai. If I still belonged it would be like crossing the sea in a heavily laden ship. I am just a small boat. When the wind blew, my boat listed and when it rained we had to bail out water. We were always exposed to risks. This gave me a certain amount of mental and physical training.

Thanks, Raul, for the contribution. What a touching interview...

It's a pity he left Hombu because of Tohei, Randall, particularly since Tohei himself left not long after. And some of Tohei's own deshi, who left Hombu with him, have since returned to the Aikikai, including Shiohira and the late Fumio Toyoda. Saotome, who left the Aikikai in 1976, returned in the late 1980s. I think the late Ozawa Kisaburo (who Shimizu mentions) was instrumental in their returns to the fold. So a reestablishment of ties is possible.

Randall,
I am a little confused when you say Aikido Federation in Singapore. Are you talking about the IAF, or are you talking about a group that calls them self the Singapore Aikido Federation. Just calling them self the such and such Aikido Federation doesn't mean that any group is claiming to be the top governing body for Aikido in a given country. The Tomiki ryu organization is the called the Japan Aikido Association, does that mean they claim to be the main association for Aikido in Japan? No, it's just a name that they use for their group.

Chris Farnham wrote: Randall, I am a little confused when you say Aikido Federation in Singapore. Are you talking about the IAF, or are you talking about a group that calls them self the Singapore Aikido Federation. Just calling them self the such and such Aikido Federation doesn't mean that any group is claiming to be the top governing body for Aikido in a given country. The Tomiki ryu organization is the called the Japan Aikido Association, does that mean they claim to be the main association for Aikido in Japan? No, it's just a name that they use for their group.

Hi Chris!

Its official name is "Aikido Federation (Singapore)".

Check out website: aikidofederation.com

Jorge Garcia wrote: There is a saying that in every issue, there is the public reason, the private reason and then there is the real reason. The issue is the many groups and why they aren't united - the real reason is that they aren't separated because of style or lineage. They are separated because of jurisdiction. Usually, all divisions are over jurisdiction or what is commonly called authority. The real question is that of protecting your own jurisdiction in order to protect your internal cohesion and viability as a group. The removal of all boundaries is a surrender of jurisdiction. The surrender of jurisdcition means that the money can go anywhere, the protection of jurisdiction is the attempt to protect the finances. All you have to do is to follow the money. I'm not suggesting this is wrong. It is the way of all humans. Groups leave the Aikikai so not to have to be accountable to their authority. In leaving, they take the money with them. If the Aikikai (which is the organization of the Founder's family) wants to protect certain ideals that they feel are essential to Aikido, they must protect their authority to enforce their ideals within their own jurisdiction. Those who leave are not accountable to the Founder's family and can do whatever they want. Some who leave make significant deviations and some don't but despite that, the issue is who will have the authority to say who does what. It is only natural that the mother organization would want to keep a say so in how the art is generally disseminated. Anyone who wants to leave is free to go. Some who go do a great job of maintaining the Founder's legacy but even so, they now control their own money. This now becomes a competition in the open market place over the funds. Again, this may not appease the idealistic but there won't be much of an Aikikai if the group breaks up into 1000 equal factions. The money will also be divided that way. The one that can control the greater portion of the money will have the greater influence and thus control it's own future better. It is only natural that this kind of competition would ensue in the open market place. It is the way of the world. The issues aren't the same for the big groups and the little groups. The little groups want more freedom and they are inhibited by the rules made by the larger group which cannot respond to their needs so often they depart. In the larger group, the public can be assured of certain things. In the smaller independent groups, you can never know what you are getting. Don't ever expect the larger groups to surrender jurisdiction for an idealistic idea of everyone holding hands over fences singing kumbaya. That will never happen. The larger group will discourage small split offs because this chipping away will eventually mean the end of it's organizational life. The smaller groups may want to leave in order to better serve themselves and to have more freedom and to control their own funds. Member dues, test fees and the right to generate and keep income are the hallmarks of the smaller groups. In both large and small, ego plays a part and there are good things and bad on both sides but the struggle will always continue. As I said, this is all happening because it's normal in organizational and human relations. There are good and well intentioned people on both sides of the issue. It's an easy out to demonize the other side but the truth is that there are both good and bad examples of everything I have said. The Aikikai was first, then all other divisions follow for whatever reason. They won't support those divisions which weaken them. I think though that all should be charitable and do what they can for themselves and let the people in the open market place decide how things all work out. Best wishes, Jorge

I do agree that there are many private reasons for an organization operating a certain way that is differant than their public reason that they state, but I think you are oversimplifying it by saying it is an issue of money entirely. Although that does have something to do with it (man cannot live by bread alone, but he can't live at all without bread).

Another reason for different federations is an issue of control of transmission and standards. Some teachers are very prideful of their students and demand longer training time due to their higher standards than others. I have heard some shihan even say that no one should teach Aikido if they don't at least have a godan. That would cut the amount of viable dojos in a lot of federations if that was the accepted norm, would it not?

Randall Lim wrote: Hi Chris! Its official name is "Aikido Federation (Singapore)". Check out website: aikidofederation.com

I see that this group is aligned with Fukakusa Shihan in Thailand. Is Fukakusa Shihan the official Hombu Shihan in charge of Aikikai in Singapore? Are they the IAF delegation for Singapore? If not this group could just be for those dojos with affiliation to Fukakusa Shihan.