Silent ukemi, or not...

When thrown we practice taking a complete straight over so we're not trained to land silent like that. I see now that it is safe. We do the straight over so eventually we learn to counter throw from uke's throw. I'm not sure you can do that from a soft breakfall, can you?

Opps... all this time I've been doing breakfalls that look almost like a mae ukemi. Although we do land on the side, it still entails uke to bend at the waist like he's going to roll. Sometimes, in a particularly fast and high throw, uke might even land on his folded feet similar to the position when you get up from a front roll.

Is this dangerous? I don't understand how you can fall straight on the floor with your back being arched. Wouldn't that hurt your lower back or at the least, your bum?

I bet you can counter throw from the type of fall..assuming I'm imagining it right.
The final postion of our fall: Lie down on the ground. Arch your back, protecting your kidneys from the ground. One leg is tucked and one foot is on the ball, ready to kick.
Ideally, foot, butt, upper back, etc. all hit at the same time. Your lower back never touches with the arch. Your butt would only hit hard if you fetal instead of arch.

Originally posted by Abasan Opps... all this time I've been doing breakfalls that look almost like a mae ukemi. Although we do land on the side, it still entails uke to bend at the waist like he's going to roll. Sometimes, in a particularly fast and high throw, uke might even land on his folded feet similar to the position when you get up from a front roll. Is this dangerous? I don't understand how you can fall straight on the floor with your back being arched. Wouldn't that hurt your lower back or at the least, your bum?

Jon Smith wrote: Besides, if I were to get thrown onto concrete, I'd rather impact with my arm and break it if it's necessary to protect my "vital" organs...[/b]

Although I agree, with the presrvation of vital organs, in a fight I would argue that your arms ARE the vital organs in the context of defending yourself, because with no defence your vital organs are going to take a kicking. I'd rather have a bruised kidney and pass blood for a few days (believe me I've been there on that one) than get my head stamped to oblivion because I'd broken my arm on impact. I'd argue that perhaps rolling out of an assault, providing you have enough space and are far enough away from an opponent. Or if there isn't enough space, then be prepared for a hard fall, and to follow up with a kick...you'll not notice the pain anyway when the adrenaline flows...

I think you should explain the ukemi to the children so they understand why you are slapping.

[quote=Jun Akiyama]
There are versions of the breakfall/highfall which does not require any slapping but are very soft. These soft breakfalls sometimes look as though the person is reaching "behind" them as they fall with their leading hand (which would have been used to slap in a traditional breakfall) to "cushion" their fall.

Jun,
I do this type of fall sometimes. In my experience it is a result of not knowing when the ground is coming. In other words, most of the time I know where the ground is due to a good solid connection between uke and tori all the way through to completion. It's the really slick techniques, when I can't feel anything from tori, that prompt me to feel for the ground. Those are my favorite by the way.

Sometime I make lots of noise, sometimes I don't...but I always get up.

Also I have to say that I agree with Greg....There is ALOT more to ukemi than just falling....but it is fun.

Shane

Jon Smith wrote: First, never try to control your partners fall. Just do the technique right and let uke do the rest. Trying to control where he lands is going to probably drive him into the mat and possibly at an angle because your "control" is adding momentum while he is in a fall.

Not sure I agree with this.
If I'm shite, I want uke to go where I want him to go, not where [s]he wants to go. I can't have much control over uke if they can pick & choose how & where they want to go.
It's uke's job to learn to take punishment so shite can learn to develop focused power and unleash it in a controlled manner (within reason of course. You shouldn't be smashing hapless uke far beyond their ukemi level. Shouldn't need to be said, but just in case I was about to be burnt in effigy).

Jon Smith wrote: As uke, you take care of falling by yourself..

Most definitely agree with that.



Re kiai: I went & watched a class with a friend last night, & one of their seniors had a kiai for every occasion. "he", "har", "ho", "so", & the list went on. Quite bizarre to my mind. !
He would alternate them with each repetition of a technique:
"he", "har", "he"
"har", "he", "har"
I would have thought that doing a kiai so many times within a single, relatively short technique (pretty much 1 for every movement) would slow it all down to hell. Mind you, he was practising quite slowly.

Found it a bit puzzling...

Stuart Norton wrote: Re kiai: I went & watched a class with a friend last night, & one of their seniors had a kiai for every occasion. "he", "har", "ho", "so", & the list went on. Quite bizarre to my mind. ! He would alternate them with each repetition of a technique: "he", "har", "he" "har", "he", "har" Found it a bit puzzling...

Maybe he was just enjoying himself.

Har de Har
Ho Ho Ho
He He

Hey people,

Just my two cents ramble...

7 years ago when I was doing the Hombu style, I strived to do silent type ukemi, because it was at that time, maybe due to the influence of then sensei, fashionable to emphasize finesse and grace. It was very nice for embu / demo because up from the spectator gallery it looked like ballet, very nice, very graceful. There was also minimal kiai, because it was considered a ruffian to be shouting all around especially in a public area (University sports centre).

Now, after being immersed in the Yoshinkan (the hard style) style for numerous years, my falls are not at all silent. My kiai is always present. The argument put forward by my current sensei with regards to slapping hard on the mat...

Slapping hard on the mat actually conditions ones hand to take hits and blocks. In actual fight, he explained, aikido technique 10%, the initial atemi and/or block should be 90%. What he meant, was the initial hit should in effect be the end of the confrontation (to persuade the adversary to discontinue his/her aggression). The remaining aikido technique is use as an osae (pin / immobilization) to permanently convince that further resistance is unnecessary on the uke's part.

With regards to kiai...from my own observation:

I kiai a lot these days, more so during hard randori. I find that it gives me courage to attack vigorously. It is more true when my shite is some 6 footer and 200 pounder black belter. Second benefit of kiai, it makes me less tired and helps me to stay in the randori game longer. I am actually quite psyche up after a round of good randori. I wonder if the kiai has anything to do with it.

Oh BTW for trivial sake, my kiai sounds like "hait" when attacking and "huh or oozt" when taking ukemi. I don't know why i have preference for such sound. As for some people using sound like "yip" or "yep ", I find it distasteful. To my ears it sound like the sound a puppy make when being punished by its owner.

Regards,
Boon.

P/S Incidently during work, without any thought I will also kiai "Lai" whenever a co-worker or customer call me. "Lai" is a colloquial term meaning "here I am at your service". Go figure