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05-20-2002, 09:33 PM
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#1
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Dojo: Aikido of Norwalk
Location: CT
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 205
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Ueshiba-ha Aikido
Curious:
Which styles of Aikido are not derived from Ueshiba Morihei? I think that Nihon Goshen is one, but there are others. Just wondering what they are, and where they come from, i.e. who founded them, if not O'Sensei.
Sarah
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Out of clutter, find simplicity.
From discord, find harmony.
In the middle of difficulty, lies opportunity.
-Albert Einstein
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05-20-2002, 11:06 PM
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#2
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Location: Bangkok
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 803
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They can call themselves whatever they like, but the truth is, if there is no lineage to Osensei, then it's not aikido.
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05-21-2002, 12:10 AM
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#3
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Dojo: Seibukan Aikido UK
Location: body in UK, heart still in Japan
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 1,031
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Quote:
Originally posted by Edward
They can call themselves whatever they like, but the truth is, if there is no lineage to Osensei, then it's not aikido.
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I`d like to think so, but I am not so sure about that. I read this last week on e-budo:
Quote:
I know many of you may wish to throw me to the flames,
but why should the Ueshiba family have the generic term "aikido"?
The term was nor invented by Ueshiba,
it was coined in the "Dai-Nihon-Butokukai"
as a generic name for various MA : Ju-Jitsu, Aiki-Jitsu and Yawara
Ueshiba took the name just like anybody else can take it today,
while he did spread a MA system and philosophy under the name,
He didn't invent it
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I don`t know how true this is, but it would certainly lend credibility to any art being called Aikido without lineage to O Sensei.
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A difficult problem is easily solved by asking yourself the question, "Just how would the Lone Ranger handle this?"
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05-21-2002, 01:24 AM
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#4
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Location: Bangkok
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 803
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As I said this is a free democratic world and anyone can call his MA aikido or any other name. However, same as no body contests the creation of judo to Pr. Jigoro Kano eventhough it is clear that it was derived from jujitsu, no one denies that aikido originally came from daitoryu aikijujitsu, but it was transformed by Osensei and renamed aikibudo and then aikido.
There are some other styles originating in aikijujitsu who capitalize on the international success of aikido and usurpe the name.
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05-21-2002, 03:39 AM
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#5
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Dojo: Aikido Sangenkai
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,313
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Quote:
Originally posted by Edward
As I said this is a free democratic world and anyone can call his MA aikido or any other name. However, same as no body contests the creation of judo to Pr. Jigoro Kano eventhough it is clear that it was derived from jujitsu, no one denies that aikido originally came from daitoryu aikijujitsu, but it was transformed by Osensei and renamed aikibudo and then aikido.
There are some other styles originating in aikijujitsu who capitalize on the international success of aikido and usurpe the name.
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Bryan's absolutely correct. The name "Aikido" was a generic name proposed in the Butokukai intended to cover a number of arts. Check out the guy who engineered all that at http://www.aikidojournal.com/article...?ArticleID=738
It may be that nobody you know denies that M. Ueshiba has the absolute right to the name Aikido, but that doesn't necessarily make it so. I've seen a number of items that suggest that Shodo Morita, at least, was using that name prior to 1942, which would give him prior use. Other arts use the name as well in various capacities. M. Ueshiba's school is certainly the most common user of the name, but that's pretty much as far as it goes, as much as I can tell.
Best,
Chris
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05-24-2002, 06:59 PM
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#6
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Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 291
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Quote:
<B>As I said this is a free democratic world and anyone can call his MA aikido or any other name. However, same as no body contests the creation of judo to Pr. Jigoro Kano eventhough it is clear that it was derived from jujitsu, no one denies that aikido originally came from daitoryu aikijujitsu, but it was transformed by Osensei and renamed aikibudo and then aikido</B>
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Actually, no one in Japan contests the fact that Kaon Shihan did NOT invent the term judo." It had been used by several other jujutsu ryuha prior to Kano's use of the term, and in fact, he took it from one of the jujutsu ryuha he studied. His second teaching kyojo is from "Kito Ryu Judo."
Peter Boylan
Mugendo Budogu LLC
Martials Arts Books, Videos and Equipment from Japan
http://www.budogu.com
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Peter Boylan
Mugendo Budogu LLC
Budo Books, Videos, Equipment from Japan
http://www.budogu.com
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05-25-2002, 04:01 AM
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#7
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Dojo: ShinToKai DoJo of AiKiDo
Location: Brazil
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 355
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WHAT'S IN A NAME?
Hello!
Chris and Peter are absolutely correct. AIKIDO was a name proposed by the Dai Nippon Butokukai for all arts "aiki" and accepted by
MINORU HIRAI Sensei, Ueshiba's representative at the Butokukai. It was available for use by many arts. The same applies to Aikijujutsu that can be used by many people. I believe also that the name KODOKAN wasn't created by Kano either. If I remember correctly, it was the name of a Temple and it was used by Kano to indicate his style of jujutsu (judo).
On the other side, if we say YOSHINKAI AIKIDO, TOMIKI AIKIDO, SHINSHIN TOITSU AIKIDO or DAITO RYU AIKIJUJUTSU, we are specifying a system or a method which belongs to a style of Aikido. If I have no link with those styles, I can't rightfully claim that I do Yoshinkai, Tomiki, ShinShin Toitsu or DAITO RYU Aikijujutsu...
Best
Last edited by Kami : 05-25-2002 at 04:12 AM.
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"We are all teachers, and what we teach is what we need to learn, and so we teach it over and over again until we learn it".
Unknown author
Ubaldo Alcantara
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06-04-2002, 10:10 AM
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#8
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Dojo: Shu Shin Kan
Location: Belgium
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 14
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I just love that article you referend to. That is actually the same as saying:'Damn, why did I not think of that?!?'
I like it.
O'sensei said that there is no style or form in Aikido. Aikido is nature itself.
I hope I do not meat the person who invented nature too soon
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