Am I turning to the dark side?

No magic, just skill.

Uh, no one said anything about magic except for you. The people you mention are people that I respect greatly, however, I have not seen the level of ability in this ONE particular area that some others have shown me. Or the ability to CONCRETELY teach it.

Just my experience...

Best,
Ron

Rob Liberti wrote: The...difference is that Dan is all about MMA which is great - but that's not aikido proper per se. I have to take what he shows me and apply it to the other things I'm interested in. My opinion is that this is fantastic because I wanted to know aikido and MMA.

That's about where I'm at, too. Kevin L. has convinced me that I need to get some good ground skills even if I'm sticking with Aikido for the rest of it.

Ron Tisdale wrote: Uh, no one said anything about magic except for you. The people you mention are people that I respect greatly, however, I have not seen the level of ability in this ONE particular area that some others have shown me.

Yes, that was me that was talking about "magic powers" in the intro to this thread. Within the context of taking my practice to the next level, whether it's really magic or not.

I do know- and have said- I need to get with Mike, Dan or Rob to see if it's the same thing as what the shihans are doing. But I hope it helps my case to say I've taken enough ukemi from Jeannette and Mustard Senseis to have felt some very "weird stuff". Like irresistible weight on my back and shoulders from two finger nikkyos and hands free throws from kata mochi. I've heard Amos Parker Shihan can make you feel like two tons of sand just got dumped over you, and everybody has seen Chida Sensei's wicked Aiki parlor tricks.

William Hazen wrote: Some aspects of Aikido need to change perhaps like the way it is taught However our Martial "System" of Aikido (and a few others) can be effective against MMA at least in my experience. I think the fault lies in the fact that your basic MMA Student learns to fight a heck of allot of faster than your basic Aikido student. Folks (including me at one time) love to around the mulberry bush about Aikido not being about fighting and that IME is the reason some Aikido has a bad rap and for good reasons...It's been dumbed down to the point in some Aikido circles that it is no longer Martially Effective using the "excuse" that "aikido is not about fighting" aka putting the cart before the horse...

Kudos to you, William. I think that's one of the truest things I've ever read about Aikido's effectiveness. MMA students do have a much higher learning curve (necessity being the mother of invention and all) but fortunately we all have a ton of time in already.

Aikido is beautiful, mysterious and elegant, which is not exclusive of effectiveness. You have to be really, really good at it to use it effectively but IMO, that's the big payoff for all the labor you put into it.

Thanks, everyone, for sticking with me as I work my way through this. Just think of it this way: It's like watching a character develop in a good movie- it's rewarding in the end, but first you have to hate them for a little while.

Martial application or not, here's 7 minutes of Kancho torturing ukes for everyone's amusement:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXoMyD50MG0

Dathan Camacho wrote: Rob, I disagree, unless I'm misunderstanding. I'm 6'3", I weigh 235 lbs, and I've only recently switched from power lifting to yoga and circuit training. If I look for power first, I'll never find finesse, or Aikido! Gellum Sensei, Mink Sensei will not be joining us on the trip, but I'll be tagging along with one or two of my sempai. If you make it, we'll see you there. Just look for the big clumsy hispanic guy with the big smile on his face!

Hi Dathan,

I guess, I wouldn't think about it as power. I'd think about it more like, gaining balance. Balance under all circumstances, no matter how hard the opponent bears down on you.

I'm not talking about balance by leaning one way or the other either. I'm talking about redirecting the forces (opponent's forces/force of gravity on your frame) inside your body, without much apparent outside movement.

That's (and I'm still very much working on the basics for this) my view of what the solo conditioning that Rob and Dan are talking about, is for. To build that balance, no matter what.

Best,
Tim

Bill Danosky wrote: I think if I want a one stop shop for the truth I probably need to go see Mike Sigman. After all that's been said, I think if he doesn't have the goods nobody does.

Actually, I *don't* have the goods. And that's no false modesty, either. I know people that really have the goods and I ain't one of 'em. At best I'm a western guy who has been "researching how to do these things" for about 25 years and I've got some modest skills. And yeah, I'm a big strong boy that weighs in at 225 pounds and I'm athletic.... but my real knowledge of these skills is limited. I don't know of a single westerner who can claim truly expert level in these skills, although I know a few who'd silently take the plaudits. Let's be honest... these skills are just getting off the ground in the West. Everyone can get on the front of the wave with just a little bit of effort and some training and thought. Let's don't screw it up this time by starting the game-playing and king-making again.

Mike Sigman

Bill wrote,

That's about where I'm at, too. Kevin L. has convinced me that I need to get some good ground skills even if I'm sticking with Aikido for the rest of it.

Obviously I highly recommend ground skills...you will learn alot about alot of things! At first it will be very frustrating and you will be all thumbs.

Here is my experiences. For about the first year I got my ass hammered, then I started doing okay with the other white belts, then at about 2 years into it, I started getting it on with the blue belts and feeling good about myself. That lasted for a while. Then I got my purple belt, and hooked up with some black belts and then started getting hammered again. I am still getting hammered by browns and purples. Figured out that I was not getting any better until I developed my core a little better.

So that is where I am now. So, I am now spending more time developing my core. Doing the exercises that Mike and Ark showed me are the base of this right now. I have hope that this will give me the edge I need to move on from there. I do those along with a bunch of stability ball exercises as well. No weights for a while.

Aikido practice affords me the opportunity to work on other things that are important in the process as well.

How's your progress on takedown defense and escapes? I know I'm taking a very narrow approach to this, but sticking with the, "sinking to the level of your training" concept, it seems best for me.

I'm not much on pins in my aikido practice either- too much time out of action. I've gotten away with it before, but I chalk that up to, "The Lord looks out for children and fools" because I was not watching my back at all.

Bill,

It is all relative to the skill level of the people you are studying with and the situations in which you train. I am happy with my level of progress actually, but I always can learn more.

I just started taking judo with my son. I am all thumbs working takedowns and throws in the judo methodology, I simply move different than they do, and I have much I can learn from them as I get away with stuff. So I look like a rote beginner doing waza.

However go to randori, and I can hold my own. It is not clean judo, but I do get the takedown and win.

It is all relative.

Yes, sinking to the level of your training. that is what we do when it gets real. This is why we have a saying in the Army, "train as you fight, fight as you train".