On Posting on AikiWeb

Seems AikiWeb has come round another circle. Maybe some other place will pick up these conversations, but they seem to have died off here.

Jun, you can close this thread if you want. It doesn't seem to be going anywhere but down and Sigman has said he'd answer stuff over on Aikido Journal.

Yeah, it would seem everyone has just moved along.

Mark Murray wrote: Seems AikiWeb has come round another circle. Maybe some other place will pick up these conversations, but they seem to have died off here.

Stanley Pranin learned the hard way on Aikido Journal that if you allow the light-weights to dominate the boards, like a certain number of the same guys do on AikiWeb now, that people just leave and post elsewhere. Pretty much every attempt at coherent discussion on ki/kokyu mechanics has been stymied on AikiWeb over the last couple of years. I say it's time to move to another forum where the moderator has the ability to recognize who is contributing and who is simply there to poop in the nest. Maybe Stanley is able to control Aikido Journal now, so it's time to give him another try?

FWIW

Mike Sigman

Ok, so why ki is supposedly missing cannot be explained.

Justin

Justin Smith wrote: Ok, so why ki is supposedly missing cannot be explained. Justin

I think he's saying people like you have no skills or opinions anyone would be interested in. He's probably right.

Mark Murray wrote: Maybe some other place will pick up these conversations, but they seem to have died off here.

If it is important to you, Mike and like minded individuals that these conversation are discussed in a controlled forum on the internet, why don't you, Mike and those who are like minded either individually or collectively start your own website where you can moderate the discussion and filter out those you don't want to participate?

David

I think Mike already has a forum like that David.
http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showpo...postcount=1507

Mike Sigman wrote: Pretty much every attempt at coherent discussion on ki/kokyu mechanics has been stymied on AikiWeb over the last couple of years.

Let's see...the 'baseline skillset' thread has 1,632 replies and 70,642 views. I wouldn't exactly call that "stymied."

Ricky Wood wrote: I think Mike already has a forum like that David. http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showpo...postcount=1507

Okay, what is the website address for "QiJin".

The discussion is hot and heavy over at Aikido Journal forum. http://www.aikidojournal.com/forums/...7fd2568fe402ba

David

Mike Sigman wrote: Stanley Pranin learned the hard way on Aikido Journal that if you allow the light-weights to dominate the boards, like a certain number of the same guys do on AikiWeb now, that people just leave and post elsewhere. Pretty much every attempt at coherent discussion on ki/kokyu mechanics has been stymied on AikiWeb over the last couple of years. I say it's time to move to another forum where the moderator has the ability to recognize who is contributing and who is simply there to poop in the nest. Maybe Stanley is able to control Aikido Journal now, so it's time to give him another try? FWIW Mike Sigman

Worth a try.

David Skaggs wrote: If it is important to you, Mike and like minded individuals that these conversation are discussed in a controlled forum on the internet, why don't you, Mike and those who are like minded either individually or collectively start your own website where you can moderate the discussion and filter out those you don't want to participate? David

It's certainly conceivable to think that when one is on a forum exchanging posts about a subject, that other posters who only post to inflame or ridicule would be in some fashion, made aware that those posts are not acceptable. If those posters persisted, it would be nice to see that they are somehow, in some way, shown that their posts are not acceptable.

This is Jun's site. But, as Mike noted, conversations tend to dry up and go elsewhere (as Aikido Journal history has shown. And as AikiWeb is trending towards) when things are not, in some manner - even small, held accountable.

Guess we'll see what the future holds...

Mark

David Skaggs wrote: Okay, what is the website address for "QiJin".

It's secret. Only Mike knows.

Well, the moderation of Aikido Journal was never suspect and the facts have been misrepresented here.
It was the OVER moderation of AIkido journal -along with many coplaints about it- that led to many leaving, same with E-Budo. You are not going to get away with Justin or Ricky type behavour there and not get called on it. You would be asked to leave, booted off, or shamed off -provided of course you had the intelligence to be ashamed in the first place.

Lest it escape anyones attention this is a site Jun created for AIKIDO. We are guests. Does he HAVE to agree that what we have been discussing is even related to aikido? When most everyone here didn't even believe this stuff it existed at all. Come on guys.....I think he has been accomodating as hell, and trying to work with those who are interested all while obviously not completely agreeing himself. Otherwise all these topics WOULD be in the Aikido section wouldnlt they?
Yet here you sit with a venue to discuss what ever you wish to discuss.
Hmfff.

Mark Murray wrote: It's certainly conceivable to think that when one is on a forum exchanging posts about a subject, that other posters who only post to inflame or ridicule would be in some fashion, made aware that those posts are not acceptable. If those posters persisted, it would be nice to see that they are somehow, in some way, shown that their posts are not acceptable.

Exactly why you or Mike or whoever should have a website where you guys can discuss this without having to put up with the ones who poop on your discussions.

David

Dan Harden wrote: Yet here you sit with a venue to discuss what ever you wish to discuss. Hmfff.

And if you don't like the comments that some of the posters make in response to your ideas, don't put the blame on Jun or Stan or anyone else, take control and have your own website where everyone can read but you control who posts.

David

Dan Harden wrote: It was the OVER moderation of AIkido journal -along with many coplaints about it- that led to many leaving, same with E-Budo. You are not going to get away with Justin or Ricky type behavour there and not get called on it. You would be asked to leave, booted off, or shamed off -provided of course you had the intelligence to be ashamed in the first place.

Er.... I don't know if you've read some of the complaints, but it was more about anonymous and BS posters, Dan. Besides, given that you yourself were called by some people and pulled all your old posts, your commentary is suspect. At least have the courtesy to recognize that.

Lest it escape anyones attention this is a site Jun created for AIKIDO. We are guests.

Oh, stoppit. QiJin is a private list and you've done your best to get people to forward the stuff to you. You need to remember the saying from my old geometry teacher, Earl "Redman" Huggins,... "when you're well off, stay well off and keep your mouth shut.".

Hmfff.

Indeed.

Justin, Ricky, and Skaggs are 3 of the worst offenders. Watching them trying to shift the blame to other issues is interesting. None of them apparently have even a clue that people are tired of them and are probably finding out who their teachers are (like some guy named "Gelum" for Skaggs). Everyone who stands up tall has his teachers looked into, right Dan?

Regards,

Mike Sigman

David Skaggs wrote: Exactly why you or Mike or whoever should have a website where you guys can discuss this without having to put up with the ones who poop on your discussions. David

In theory, but it's not that easy. People come to this site because it's popular and there are a lot of experienced martial artists here. You can't just pop up a new site and quality people will magically appear in numbers. Also not everyone has the time or funds to do this. You have a good site here already. You also have well-respected people who are interested in the sorts of things Mike and a few others talk about - if I'm not mistaken, Rob's teacher will be giving a seminar at George Ledyard's dojo - so it seems pretty straightforward that to keep the quality up it's worth slapping a few knuckleheads who make people not want to post. I may not agree with or comprehend everything Mike says, but it's at least interesting and he's obviously an experienced guy who's serious about doing his thing. All I see Justin doing is following him around and nipping at his heels like one of those annoying little dogs that shakes and pees a lot. In my experience, serious martial artists have a low tolerance for that, and rightfully so. It takes years of toil for anyone to get to a point where they can share potentially valuable insights, and those are the guys I want to hear from. What is the point of letting them be driven off by people that sound like annoying, disrespectful teenagers? It lessens the quality of content if it's reduced to "I had an aiki moment with my cat" posts and the serious martial artists go underground. If I were a mod here I'd ask him not to respond to Mike or comment on the topic, period, and if he can't hack that, then boot him off.

It sounds like we have some really serious martial artist's here. As I see it, everyone is welcome. Whether it be 'aiki cat' moments or 'I'm a serious martial artist' comments. There is an ignore feature on this forum that one can use to filter out comments by posters one doesn't approve of. If you don't know how to use it, ask Jun. I'm sure he'll be happy to assist. That would probably be more effective than jumping up and down insisting that you have more of a right to make comments than others do. There is also a Voices of Experience forum for those who can cut the mustard, so to speak. You don't like my comments? don't read them. Seems pretty straightforward to me. Or like David suggests, create your own forum.

Ricky Wood wrote: You don't like my comments? don't read them. Seems pretty straightforward to me.

How about if you get some control over yourself and see if you can contribute something meaningful instead of your usual in-your-face bs? Why should you be so egocentric as to think that you're immune from having some class or common sense? Personally, I take you at your word... you represent what a lot of "Aikido Teachers" are. And I suspect that it's embarrassing for many of them.... but you so far have ignored all their diplomatic exhortations.

BTW..... since you "teach Aikido", why don't you post who your teachers are who gave you the permission to teach?

Mike Sigman

Dan Austin wrote: In theory, but it's not that easy. People come to this site because it's popular and there are a lot of experienced martial artists here. You can't just pop up a new site and quality people will magically appear in numbers. Also not everyone has the time or funds to do this. You have a good site here already.

Yes, it is a good site thanks to the hard work of Jun who deserves every poster's respect and consideration when posting.

Dan Austin wrote: n my experience, serious martial artists have a low tolerance for that, and rightfully so. It takes years of toil for anyone to get to a point where they can share potentially valuable insights, and those are the guys I want to hear from. What is the point of letting them be driven off by people that sound like annoying, disrespectful teenagers? It lessens the quality of content if it's reduced to "I had an aiki moment with my cat" posts and the serious martial artists go underground.

Serious mature martial artists know not to respond in kind to annoying, disrespectful people. It does not deter them from what they do and makes you look like one of them.

Dan Austin wrote: If I were a mod here I'd ask him not to respond to Mike or comment on the topic, period, and if he can't hack that, then boot him off.

Okay, but this is Jun's website and you post here because of his hard work, time, perseverance, and money. To respond in kind who are annoying to you shows disrespect to Jun.
In all seriousness and no malice intended a website by Mike, or yourself might be received better than you think by the martial arts community and you could control the posting.

David

David Skaggs wrote: Serious mature martial artists know not to respond in kind to annoying, disrespectful people.

This is the part that interests me. The ad hoc insulters like David, Ricky, and Justin actually think that it's someone else's character failure if they respond to the insults. As long as they can contrive to obliquely mask the insults so that Jun can't recognize it as "ad hominem", they think it's OK to insult. Perhaps so, as a matter of fact. That's why I think people should choose another forum like Aikido Journal to post serious discussions on. It's out of control on AikiWeb when the perpetrators are blaming people for reacting to the insults!

Regards,

Mike Sigman

Dan Austin wrote: IYou also have well-respected people who are interested in the sorts of things Mike and a few others talk about - if I'm not mistaken, Rob's teacher will be giving a seminar at George Ledyard's dojo - so it seems pretty straightforward that to keep the quality up it's worth slapping a few knuckleheads who make people not want to post.

Yes, Akuzawa Sensei will be at our dojo in Nov, although last I heard, it was just about full. I've had the good fortune to train briefly with Mike and he certainly can do extraordinary things. I haven't trained with Dan but I have friends who did and their reports were quite positive.

I think we should really try to get past this perpetual harping by parties who have absolutely no direct experience of any of these people. If you feel the need to doubt, be informed and get on the mat with these folks. If you don't want to put your money where your mouth is, just shut up.

Mike wrote a very nice piece for AJ and someone wanted to have a discussion of the points he raised. If you don't have something positive to contribute, stay out of it.

Look, I am an Aikido teacher. I travel around and I see a wide variety of Aikido. Most of what is out there is pretty poor. People may not want to hear that but it's true. I am on record as pointing out that, you could master what Dan, Mike, and Akuzawa are doing and you wouldn't necessarily be doing Aikido... but there's no doubt in my mind that the people doing Aikido would ALL benefit from doing some sort of training along these lines.

Whether you personally like these guys or not, whether you find their ideas persuasive or not, at least they are out there teaching and willing to put themselves out there for all to see. So far I have never had a single person come up to me and say that they had gone to see one of these fellows and come away thinking they were full of it... On the other hand, the consistent nay sayers who turn all of these discussions into back biting sessions are folks I have never heard of who trained with, well I guess I'm not sure who they trained with...

I think that, while it's useful to have participation at all levels on the forums, it's also ridiculous to have folks who clearly have no clue arguing with people who have a great deal of experience and have some depth to their opinions.

On the other hand, I have also pointed out that there is an ignore button on this forum and it works wonderfully. Someone was kind enough to name the "big three" offenders... so put them on the ignore list. I have done so and my "wa" is far more harmonious than it was. You guys who do know something and are capable of having a meaningful discussion do not have to knee jerk a counter response every time some bozo posts. It just feeds them... I read whole discussions now and the posts by these fellows are simply blanked out... So I only read the posts by people I wish to hear from.. Now if I can persuade you guys to stop responding to these little minded annoyances, we can get the forum back to something with some real meat on it and not something I feel I need to trim 90% off to get to the good stuff.

George S. Ledyard wrote: Someone was kind enough to name the "big three" offenders... so put them on the ignore list. I have done so and my "wa" is far more harmonious than it was.

That's it. You're off my seminar attendance list.
Seriously though. It is unimportant to me whether someone likes me or not. Some people like me and some don't. I don't fret about it. It also doesn't affect my training. I still occasionly attend a dojo where the instructor and I have had a disagreement. I attend seminars there and encourage those I train with to do the same. I train for my benefit, not others. Similar to the reasons I post here. I realize I have little or nothing to contribute to anyone's knowledge of aikido. I have never suggested otherwise. But I also will not 'shutup' just because someone does not like my comments. The same as I will not stop training just because someone thinks my aikido sucks or deem me not worthy. It's my path, not yours.

George S. Ledyard wrote: I think that, while it's useful to have participation at all levels on the forums, it's also ridiculous to have folks who clearly have no clue arguing with people who have a great deal of experience and have some depth to their opinions.

George,

Even though I only quoted the above, I say hear hear! to your entire post. I couldn't have said it better. The ignore function was not obvious to me, but I will immediately investigate its use.

I would like to add that I do read most everything that Mike, Dan, Rob, George and other's write as I find great value in them. I also do not doubt any of their abilities or knowledge. So don't be surprised when I show up at their seminars. The last time I attended one of George's seminar's he didn't throw me out. Perhaps that is only because he didn't recognise me. I don't look like my avatar. I'm also pretty confident they aren't going to quit posting because of the likes of the big three offenders. I have a feeling that their skin is at least as thick as mine.