Steven Seagal and Aikido, your thoughts

Drew Gardner (Suru) wrote: I've heard that some shihan refer to him as "Steven Seagull." Kinda funny I think. Drew

I believe the latter spelling is closer to the traditional family pronunciation of the sir name Seagal than the latter version given for the move carrier. It was and still is pronounced more like the gangster fellow of the 1940s Bugsy Seagal. Now if I could just find another way to pronounce Hooker.

Dennis Hooker

www.shindai.com

I'm laughing out loud, Hooker Sensei, because I don't think sixth degree black belts are really too concerned about what their name sounds like!

Drew

How about Hoo Kay?

Kinda has a ring to it, no? Hookay sensay?

I met a very pretty young lady whose name was spelled Sexsmith - she insisted here name was Sessmith.

And there is the UK Comedy 'Keeping Up Appearances' where the leading lady's name is spelled 'Bucket' but she insists on pronouncing it 'Bouqet'!!

And in Slough (I think) wherre I live I have heard of a Doctor D'Eath - but I'm not sure how they pronounce it!!

My parents have doctors named:

Dr. Hurtzler and Dr. Harm

There's a chiropractor in Kalamazoo MI named Dr. Bender

Bronson

Peter Rehse,

Thanks for reply, I will stay focused on my exam and Balanced with good Breathing. I went to your site, you have a great DOJO to train maybe I can train there someday. Right now I have to get ready for six inches of snow that is arriving in NewYork tonight.

Everyone's welcome. Don't forget to let us know how your exam went. Here we get a light dusting of snow which doesn't last more than a few days. I like it this way.

Daniel Blanco wrote: Peter Rehse, Thanks for reply, I will stay focused on my exam and Balanced with good Breathing. I went to your site, you have a great DOJO to train maybe I can train there someday. Right now I have to get ready for six inches of snow that is arriving in NewYork tonight.

Dennis Hooker wrote: I believe the latter spelling is closer to the traditional family pronunciation of the sir name Seagal than the latter version given for the move carrier. It was and still is pronounced more like the gangster fellow of the 1940s Bugsy Seagal. Now if I could just find another way to pronounce Hooker. Dennis Hooker www.shindai.com

Years ago, before the movies, I saw him in a segment on (I think) "PM Magazine". Anyway, at that time they were pronouncing the name "Seagal" as in "Bugsy Seagal".

Best,

Chris

www.tenshinaikido.com

John Carbone wrote: First off yes im a Seagal fan That being said. I hear many people say his Aikido isnt "real". What do they mean by this?I know the Aikido he does in movies is not the Aikido we do. He seems to improvise and have almost his own style. Last I heard he was 7th Degree Dan. That is a very high rank. I think that deserves some respect. How many of us will attain that rank. I have also heard he is one of the highest ranked Westerners in Aikido. Is this true? Why do people say he is not an Aikidoka? Is it just personal opinion? Thanks for you're thoughts.

just watch his documentry (The Path Beyond Thought), and you'll see that not only his aikido real, but also very unique and respected.

Well, where to start?
Aikido techniques from Steven Seagal are known to be powerful and effective... but it is also because Seagal is quite a big and strong guy. It's not easy, even for a good aikidoka or any other martial artist to beat a guy that is that massive, that strong and also that well trained in aikido (7th dan is not a joke).

It is also known that his attitude shows a lack of aiki spirit. Seagal is arrogant, unpolite, rude and well known for chasing down stunts in the film sets to train or enacts sudden Aikido demonstrations with or without the acceptance of his occasional couterparts. He also loves to challenge any other martial artist present at the place to show his superiority (as he've done earlier with Don Draeger in kenjutsu, and also been beaten), being charged a couple of times for choking fellow actors and stunts, and that's how he got involved in that choking incident with Gene Lebell... that has finally been confirmed by eye witnesses. If I find the link or the full article where all is finally told i'll post it here, I'm sure I have it somewhere.

Anyway....
Seagal is a good fighter, not a good aikidoka (let's not talk about his acting), so I wouldn't use him as a rolemodel, or choose him to be my sensei. I can respect his technique, respect his achievements, respect his effort in showing aikido to the masses, but i can't accept his attitude, specially is he is trying to portray himself as a sensei. The word Sensei...teacher....involves a concept that not fits him...he's not a good example of what an aikidoka must be.

best regards

Rodrigo

Just check this interview to take a glimpse on seagal's attitude (it's not the one i promissed, but it helps to find out the kind of person Seagal is):

http://www.stevenseagal.movienet.org.uk/article2.html

Here is some info taken from E-Budo.com forums
(The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly > Bad Budo)
http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showthre...5&page=4&pp=15
Information has been posted in 3 messages by Mark Tripp.
Who is Mark Tripp?
Mark Tripp
6th Dan Judo, 8th Dan Jujitsu
Sensei, entertainer
Member od the Budokan Judo/Jujitsu of Michigan
Holly, MI
USA
This information was also found in an interview to one of the
stunts and another with Bob Wall I've read.
Who is Bob Wall?
Bob Wall
Black Belt Tang Soo Do, Black Belt Tae Kwon Do
US Karate Professional Champion 1970
Also practiced Judo, Kempo Karate, Jujitsu, Okinawa-Te,
Shoryn-Ryu.
Co-owner of Sherman Oaks Karate Studio since 1968 with
Chuck Norris.
Film star and stunt coordinator
Los Angeles, CA
USA
Some research I've done on Mr Tripp backgrounds shows him
as a very reliable person.
Stunts working at Under Siege also worked with Wall, and as
far as I was able to research, he has been at the film set the
same day the incident took part.
Here are the posts (with notes between <<>> from the things
I've read from other sources and my experience in first-aid and
rescue)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As to Mr. Seagal being choked out by Gene LeBell on the set
of Under Seige, I can state for the record it is not unproven
rumor, but fact.

Prior to the court settlement, Mr. LeBell told me first hand
about the event. After court settlement Mr. LeBell no longer
speaks about it.

However, Bob Wall has also confirmed the story, to me
personally, and the events of that day.

Not looking to flame or insult, just making the facts known.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The facts, many of which are here all ready.

Mr. Segal has been rough on stunt people, and injured a friend
of Gene.<<Note: In the interview to the stunt said Seagal
changed the fight routines frequently without coordinating with
them and they got injured in the process of filming. Also
Seagal were bullying them all the time off-cameras>>

Holding court on the set of Under Seige, Mr. Seagal claimed
to be able to use his "ki power" and prevent being choked out,
<<Note: in the stunt interview, the guy said that as soon as
LeBell showed in the place, Seagal said that again in order to
provocate LeBell and show him he was the roughest guy in
the place. LeBell went there to verify the information he got
from other of the stunts and to humbling Seagal if necessary>>.
Gene said "I'll take that bet".

Gene put the choke on, and Segal tapped out at once and said
"I wasn't ready". Gene said "Let me know when you are ready"

Seagal said he was, and when Gene began to put the choke
on, he attacked Gene in an attempt to counter before the choke
was on, and grabed for his groin.

Gene kept the hold but sprawled, then compressed him. Mr.
Seagal passed out, and made a mess in his pants. This part
of the story was verified by Bob Wall who has the evidence
from the set that Mr. Seagal needed cleaning and new clothes.
<<Note: as an emergency rescuer, I can affirm that once
you pass out, you loose control of the body. So, if Seagal
really passed out, he may have lost control of his bladder>>.

When Seagal came around, he had Gene thrown off the set,
blacklisted him as a stunt man, and made a law suit against
him.

However, the Inquirer caught wind of this and ran a small story
about the event. It was clear the story would get a lot more
coverage if it went to court. <<Note: Some says the Inquirer
is not a reliable source, but a sensacionalist tabloid, but it is
evident that the coverage forced Seagal to an off-court
arrangement>>

So the settlement was, Gene can work, and no law suit, BUT,
he can not speak of the event.

Mr. Wall, who created the dirty dozen, and has many more
Seagal stories, is not bound by such events. I spoke to
Gene before the Gag order, and have spoken at great length
to Mr. Wall.

This is the story as both men related it to me.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, in reality there is a great deal of truth in the post. So
say otherwise is to infer I am a liar and that, lacking proof,
would be a bit much.

I have spoken to Gene directly about this.

I have spoken to Bob Wall directly about this.

I have spoken to two other stunt men on the set about this.

I'll bet that is more than anyone else here can honestly say.

There was indeed a law suit, Gene did choke out Seagal
and yes he had an accident.

Believe whatever you wish; but from my interviews I know
what the facts are.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wait...Steven Seagal is an actor?????

No, really...quit messing around...

Bash Steven Seagal threads must follow some sort of moon cycle.

Rodrigo Rosa wrote: Well, where to start? Aikido techniques from Steven Seagal are known to be powerful and effective... but it is also because Seagal is quite a big and strong guy. It's not easy, even for a good aikidoka or any other martial artist to beat a guy that is that massive, that strong and also that well trained in aikido (7th dan is not a joke). It is also known that his attitude shows a lack of aiki spirit. Seagal is arrogant, unpolite, rude and well known for chasing down stunts in the film sets to train or enacts sudden Aikido demonstrations with or without the acceptance of his occasional couterparts. He also loves to challenge any other martial artist present at the place to show his superiority (as he've done earlier with Don Draeger in kenjutsu, and also been beaten), being charged a couple of times for choking fellow actors and stunts, and that's how he got involved in that choking incident with Gene Lebell... that has finally been confirmed by eye witnesses. If I find the link or the full article where all is finally told i'll post it here, I'm sure I have it somewhere. Anyway.... Seagal is a good fighter, not a good aikidoka (let's not talk about his acting), so I wouldn't use him as a rolemodel, or choose him to be my sensei. I can respect his technique, respect his achievements, respect his effort in showing aikido to the masses, but i can't accept his attitude, specially is he is trying to portray himself as a sensei. The word Sensei...teacher....involves a concept that not fits him...he's not a good example of what an aikidoka must be. best regards Rodrigo

Well, I must say, isn't it ironic that you say Seagal Shihan is not acting in an Aiki way, yet you are not acting in the spirit of Aikido either. Many times I have seen these same threads disrespecting someone or another, famous or not, and it is disturbing. I practise Aikido not only for the martial aspect (self defense) but for spiritual and emotional content as well. Harmony and peace are center points to the art, and yet I seem to see people make rude and degrading statements regarding someone else.

Here are the facts...Steven Seagal Shihan Does Aikido, He is a 7th Dan in Aikido, He began training in the early 70's and has operated schools devoted to Aikido and Japanese culture.

Why is it that we must keep bringing someting up that happened over 10 years ago, and everyone already knows happed (re: Judo Gene choking out Seagal). It happened, Seagal got choked, so what? Even the best at what they do can be had by others. No one person is superior and there is always someone better. But you take what you have with whom you ahve it.

My point is why can we not get along and point out good things, instead of bickering and pointing out the bad things. Peace among all of us would be better than any differences of opinion we may have. We are all sharing a common ground, Aikido. Lets all, as Aikidoka, stop spreading anger or disrespect (however you want to look at it) and lets just talk about good ole fashioned Aikido.

Of course, I will probably get ridiculed for this post, but I think we all need to look in the mirror and see who we are. I am not exluded from this point of view either, I am an offender of speaking in a negative fashion!!!!! But I am trying to make more postive things occur than negative.

B

Thanks Brendon. Well put.

Aiki-fruity hugs all around

Human nature being what it is, means that we have flaws. What you see on this thread are just opinions. I am impressed by how you seek to follow the ideals of aikido, but please don't be too harsh on us mere mortals Life is a journey and we are all trying to improve (I hope).

Disclaimer: the above is said in the most light-hearted of ways.

LOL, well Dean, thanks for the reply. What I was trying to say (and I think mere words on a screen tend to make it appear in a different light than what would be said) is that I just wish we could focus more on postive than negative. Hey, I am not perfect, nor would I ever claim to be...in fact, I have many flaws which, well, would take far too long to go into here (LOL)!!!!!!

Anyway, I hope I did not come across too gruff or rude, it was not intended that way at all. My idea is to just sit down with everyone and drink a beer or 10!!!!!! And of course, practise Aikido!!!!!

In one of his movies (connot remember which) his name is Gino and he wanlks into a pool bar and breaks the bones of enerybody there. At a point he applies nikyo to a big fat guy but-miracusly- the guy manages to stand up and confront him.
I asked my master (4th Dan F.D'Agata) if this could ever be true. He preposed to show me. I am 100kg and my master 60kg and no matter how hard I tried (even played a bit dirty) I could never escape the nikyo lock.
As previously said by another, movies is something but real Aikido is something else.

Stelios Papados wrote: In one of his movies (connot remember which) his name is Gino and he wanlks into a pool bar and breaks the bones of enerybody there.

Think this movie was OUT FOR JUSTICE.

At a point he applies nikyo to a big fat guy but-miracusly- the guy manages to stand up and confront him.

Think this happened in a different movie called EXIT WOUNDS. The person was able to get out of it by grabbing the thumb of Seagal and twisting up. Don't think it impossible to do.

I don't give a monkey's about Seagal...

Pete Swann wrote: And in Slough (I think) wherre I live I have heard of a Doctor D'Eath - but I'm not sure how they pronounce it!!

... but I do know how to pronounce D'Eath: Dee-Ath. It's usually written De'Ath.

Seagal, or Take Sensei as his students know him, tested to (i think) sandan. The rest of his rank is meio (meyo?), honorary, given to him for his contribution in spreading aikido (which is a legitimate reason for recieving meio ranking). He is from MIchigan (I think Lansing, not sure), and was promoted to shodan by Fumio Toyoda Sensei (a fact I found really interesting). THe correct pronunciation of his name is Seegel, as he is of Jewish origin (don't know how closely that relates to him, the religion I mean). He has a few children that he doesn't give (gave, they may be over 18 by now) child support to, and he used to practice the facial expression on the cover of Above the Law for hours on his bedroom mirror. I've never trained with Seagal Sensei, but from what I see on Path Beyond Thought and the Aiki Expo demo that his technique looks pretty dynamic. I don't know what he's doing with training now, but from his ealier days (in Japan) it looks like they trained pretty hard (which I like), and its pretty bragable to be a gaijin and open a dojo in Japan (although he kind of had a hookup with that). I like his older movies, but the newer ones have been kinda hard to sit though although I still try to see each one (at my old dojo we threatened to demote a guy for not liking Seagal movies!).

Im sorry but I have to comment on this thread... People say Seagal is arrogent, yet at the same time I always hear from other Aikido practitioners out here how effective their art is, yet none of them prove it in tourny. That sounds arrogent to me! Yes I know the philosophy of Aikido and yes I love it, but Aikido being an art of peace is just an excuse to not compete! I study Shaolin along with Karate and Aikido, and from experiences, my Sifu's teacher a Shaolin Grandmaster, frequently put on tournements! And yes we compete, full contact,,,because if you are being traditionally trained in the real art you should have no worries. Tournys are different than going out looking for a fight, it is a chance to test you skill and grow. I mean in Shaolin, I was told by my Sifu that in the old days they would take up to a couple of months at time to heal from a sparring match. Yet they were peacefull tru and true. Seagal arrogent? Maybe, but he tried, failed, and learned too