Randori

Peter Rehse wrote: Is it in Tokyo - I didn't know. If it is still fly in and out of Kansai airport and take a week or so afterward to train at Honbu. I'm a bit out of the way but you can crash at my place. The cost of the comute is still less than hotels although Orange House in convenient. A one week rail pass is the cost of a return trip from Osaka to Tokyo.

Thanks for the offer Peter. I'd love to train at Hombu if I got the chance.

I heard the International is supposed to be around October 2005 at either one of the Universities in Tokyo (not Waseda) or one of the Stadia in the area. If they go the University route I hear that boarding for many visitors will be done at the university (name escapes me at the moment). The date and location are still to be finalised in my understanding.

Will let you know if I hear anything.

LC

As far as I know the location is still largely undecided but my info is a couple of months old. The Osaka venue was considered too pricey. I'll ask next time I go and train.

In my experience we haven't practised randori (what I would consider one on one free techniques with kaeshiwaza) at all in Aikikai Aikido. I have dabbled in it with friends, but that's it.
We practice san nin gake jiyuwaza so I am at a loss why it isn't practised at all one on one, then there is an expectation to apply free technique against 3 people simultaneously.
My opinion is that as soon as a specific technique is set, it requires some level of compliancy from uke in order to work. I feel this creates a situation where uke's response to the technique is not honest. ie blocking techniques for the sake of blocking and not continuing to attack nage or have concern for their own self preservation.
I believe all training would benefit from some light randoi (no ego, no competition, just an honest continued response from uke) because the techniques are just a tool to teach principles which are then applied free form in randori.
I discussed randori with my sensei and he commented that it is predicated on the fact that the initial technique was not correctly applied. I agree with this, however one should be trying to apply the technique correctly. If it is correct, then no kaeshiwaza is possible.
What are your thoughts?

I think we're off the old topic a bit. I was told once there is no lock without a key - but that might mean that a technique was stuffed very early on, or that uke is falling in a different way. Kaitenage is for when balance is broken forwards. If I don't get your balance broken forward, either from your effort or my failure, then Kaitenage is the wrong technique to do. Uke doesn't get to rewrite the script and then demand I do nothing different. Part of the whole connection thing.

I had an intermediate student who was scared of Jujigarami and reflexively pulled one arm away, often before the attack even happened. I don't need to go to martial arts classes to learn to defend myself against someone running away from me, which is what he was doing. He could sabotage a kata practice, but in freestyle I was still holding one arm or I had my hands in position for atemi. If I had played his game, I would have made my aikido worse. I want to chase the openings, not the effort.

Bülent Koçak wrote: hi to everyone, I asked a few days ago my sensei if we will ever practise randori. We have never trained this in our dojo. I am a 4th Kyu aikidoka (will be 3 next week hopefully ), but I have not seen higher ranked aikidokas training randori. He did not give me a satisfying answer... What I want to know, do you practise it in your dojos? and after which Kyu (Dan) are people starting to practise it? and lastly, at any Kyu or Dan test, does an aikidoka have to perform randori. is it a need? wish you a lovely day from Istanbul...

Hi Bulent, generally speaking they don't do randori in Aikido, at least not what is meant in the Judo sense of the word (free fighting). I think the main reason for this is because Aikido really teaches deadly techniques, if followed through to completion, unlike Judo which is more like playground rough and tumble. And because the instructor's want their students to return each week, free fighting is banned!

Steven Wright wrote: In my experience we haven't practised randori (what I would consider one on one free techniques with kaeshiwaza) at all in Aikikai Aikido. I have dabbled in it with friends, but that's it. We practice san nin gake jiyuwaza so I am at a loss why it isn't practised at all one on one, then there is an expectation to apply free technique against 3 people simultaneously. My opinion is that as soon as a specific technique is set, it requires some level of compliancy from uke in order to work. I feel this creates a situation where uke's response to the technique is not honest. ie blocking techniques for the sake of blocking and not continuing to attack nage or have concern for their own self preservation. I believe all training would benefit from some light randoi (no ego, no competition, just an honest continued response from uke) because the techniques are just a tool to teach principles which are then applied free form in randori. I discussed randori with my sensei and he commented that it is predicated on the fact that the initial technique was not correctly applied. I agree with this, however one should be trying to apply the technique correctly. If it is correct, then no kaeshiwaza is possible. What are your thoughts?

John Robinson wrote: Hi Bulent, generally speaking they don't do randori in Aikido, at least not what is meant in the Judo sense of the word (free fighting). I think the main reason for this is because Aikido really teaches deadly techniques, if followed through to completion, unlike Judo which is more like playground rough and tumble. And because the instructor's want their students to return each week, free fighting is banned!

This is a very old discussion topic, and the arguments you raise were already discussed in-depth, years ago, you can find such discussions here at aiki-web.

As a practitioner of Korindo Aikido, we are doing randori on a frequent basis, as it's one of the major precepts of training in our M.A., just like tai-sabaki and kata/waza. Further, our technique variants are normally on the harsher harm potential, and yet, we hardly ever see any injury in Randori. So please don't believe any "deadly technique" slogan.
how would it look - here is an example from an internal demo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsgVIDYWszU

Have fun
Amir

Amir Krause wrote: This is a very old discussion topic, and the arguments you raise were already discussed in-depth, years ago, you can find such discussions here at aiki-web. As a practitioner of Korindo Aikido, we are doing randori on a frequent basis, as it's one of the major precepts of training in our M.A., just like tai-sabaki and kata/waza. Further, our technique variants are normally on the harsher harm potential, and yet, we hardly ever see any injury in Randori. So please don't believe any "deadly technique" slogan. how would it look - here is an example from an internal demo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsgVIDYWszU Have fun Amir

Hi Amir, that's the style of training I have in mind. Looks like fun!

Hi Amir, that's the sort of training I had in mind. Looks like fun!
Love the koshinage at 1:30...