i got a funny question...

Peter Rehse wrote: To diverge a little bit from Chris' point of view - I would like to hold onto my obi for awhile. It was a personal gift from Shihan after the end of a trying period.

I've had a couple of judo obi that I felt attached to for similar reasons. The last one was given to me by Isao Inokuma after he tore mine in half during newaza in 1969. I wore that obi for about 25 years before I retired it.

Now I wear an iaido obi under my hakama and wash it about once a month. I wore dogi out in the "old days" before I got attached to them. These days the washing machine wears them out faster than I do.

I respect my training gear because it serves me well and I take care of it because I was taught that many years ago and it's part of the practice. I don't go overboard with any "mystical" properties connected with it though.

In my own dojo I hang up my hakama so it'll dry and when traveling, I fold it (standing up with it on my chest) before I put it in the furoshiki or bag.

C.E. Clark (Chuck Clark) wrote: I respect my training gear because it serves me well and I take care of it because I was taught that many years ago and it's part of the practice. I don't go overboard with any "mystical" properties connected with it though.

Which is what I think Chris was getting on about. As you know, over here some wash their obi and some don't although I wonder if there are Aikido dojos or even other martial arts in Japan that consider these mystical properties or "respect" quite in the same way as one runs to in the West.

I really don't know. The extreme examples (and I am thinking about one Karate dojo in particular) I would think tend to be found elsewhere.

Basically what's important are clean well maintained equipement, and clean well maintained toe and finger nails.

Oh yeah and guys don't wear tee shirts - ever.

Peter Rehse (PeterR) wrote: Which is what I think Chris was getting on about. As you know, over here some wash their obi and some don't although I wonder if there are Aikido dojos or even other martial arts in Japan that consider these mystical properties or "respect" quite in the same way as one runs to in the West.

My personal experience is that Japanese people, despite often waxing romantic, are basically fairly pragmatic. It wouldn't surprise me at all to hear a Japanese person ramble on about mystical respect for the belt and then go home and throw it in the laundry.

Peter Rehse (PeterR) wrote: Oh yeah and guys don't wear tee shirts - ever.

I trained at one dojo in Japan where all of the guys wore undershirts (actually, the cotton undergarment you wear under a kimono) in order to soak up the sweat. I didn't quite sneer at them though - the instructor was a regional champion in the Kyokushinkai before he started Aikido .

Best,

Chris

Tim Rohr (Magma) wrote: Willy, It seems that your main point is that there is no "magic" that would be washed out of the belt if we threw it into the washing machine.

My point was not just that there is no "magic", but that there is no deep, ancient tradition involving the belt, or the keikogi for that matter. As other people have now mentioned.

Personally I respect my training gear by keeping my gi clean, folding it neatly, and tying my belt neatly around it. I also sand any burrs off training weapons and rub beeswax on any made of wood or leather. As I said, I don't actually wash my belt very much. But I don't worry about it lying about on a clean floor while I fold my gi (also on the floor).

Regarding T-shirts -- I sometimes wear UnderArmour ones in hot weather, or when my upper arms have been rubbed raw.

=wl

Willy, I think what you and others miss is that it does not matter if the tradition is ancient or not. If an aspect of training or an activity focuses you more and serves as a reminder of respect, duty, honor, and the betterment of the self, then we should suffer such things.

This really comes from the notion of how to treat a belt, starting with the fact that one never puts one's belt on the floor. That is a matter of respect, a new way we shape ourselves by not letting our minds be inattentive. In other words, *this* is (your/my) belt, keep it and treat it with respect. It is not so different from the analogy of military ranks given before... that such time and attention is given to polishing, etc.

This is not just an aikido notion. Having trained in other arts, I can tell you this notion is pervasive in many if not all of them: you simply do not put/lay/leave your belt on the ground.

I know you don't agree with that rule, but keeping a belt off the ground is only the first step, IMO. You are not ready to accept that rigor of training, that demand for mental discipline, but that is really up to you and what you are willing to accept out of yourself.

I do not lay my belt on the ground out of respect for it, my instructor and those that have gone before, and the art.

I do not wash my belt also because of respect, but also because I value that symbol of my training.

So, how important are symbols? Do we need them anymore? Apparently less and less if we are willing to treat our belts - tangible symbols of our rank and participation in this art that we tie on ourselves before every class - with as little regard as gym socks.

(I am sorry for the comment that was made regarding gym socks. To the person that said that, you and I value widely disparate aspects of our training, and I simply cannot compare my time on the mats with time in the gym. I am sorry if you can.)

If you do not think that symbol and metaphor are important parts of our learning and, indeed, of aikido, then I invite you to rethink your approach to the art and discover that the symbology and metaphor is already there. How many of us have actually used aikido in a fight? And of those, how often? The answer is, of course, a fraction of a fraction. And yet there is this notion of aikido-in-every-day-life, an evening of the keel, so to speak. What is that but a symbol? Aikido is a vehicle, carrying the message of unified effort and harmonious resolution into all the aspects of life. From interpersonal relationships to work to driving to life in general.

Aikido is a metaphor. We treat that metaphor with respect - we *learn* from it - if we are willing to apply it to our lives. How much more might we learn respecting the other metaphors that surround the art?

...it just happens that our belts are one of these other metaphors.

Tim Rohr (Magma) wrote: (I am sorry for the comment that was made regarding gym socks. To the person that said that, you and I value widely disparate aspects of our training, and I simply cannot compare my time on the mats with time in the gym. I am sorry if you can.)

I would say that it's not that I can compare my time on the mats with time in the gym, it's that you can compare your training with a piece of cloth .

I wouldn't put my belt on the floor if the floor were dirty, but I wouldn't put my t-shirt there either...

As I said there is no real basis for justifying this as a "traditional" custom historically. If you feel the need to make up and perpetuate modern "traditions" to show respect for your training then I wish you luck. I don't really see the need.

Best,

Chris

Tim Rohr (Magma) wrote: Willy, I think what you and others miss is that it does not matter if the tradition is ancient or not.

Ok, age of tradition doesn't matter. What about who started it? I mean, what if someone made up a "tradition" and told it to you as a gag? If you don't think that's ever happened, I've got a [obvious sucker's deal] right here....

Look, it's obviously an important symbol/metaphor to you. To me it's just a cloth belt. It may have some symbolic baggage due to memories of training in it, who gave it to me, etc. But it has essentially no bearing on my training. Any special training on mindfulness regarding treatment of my belt could just as well be done on any other object -- in fact better to use mindfulness in treatment of all objects, especially those I come into contact with more often than my belt in daily life. But if you want to use your belt, that's fine with me. No need for a tall equine here.

=wl

Peter Rehse (PeterR) wrote: ....I would like to hold onto my obi for awhile....Lots of washings would probably make that happen sooner than I would like.

Ya think?

But doesn't the salt in sweat crystalize turning every thread into sand paper if it remains unwashed?

Funnily enough, I don't find that my obi gets sweaty! It is outside of my gi and mostly inside of my hakama!

I don't wash my belt, but then again if you don't hold any importance to not washing it, then fine. People get so worked up about people not doing things that they see as important. I know yudanska aikidoka that throw their obi, gi and hakama screwed up in their bag (has a few more than 7 folds ), and then others that obsessively fold, tie, etc.

Why don't I wash my obi? Well it gets used a lot, but it doesn't smell! Also, when I started judo way back, I was told about the "tradition" of not washing your obi, then again at karate dojo, and of course, aikido dojo. Really, I see my training as polishing my obi and washing it as tarnishing it. It might be silly to some, but washing it, to me, takes something away from it.

Don J. Modesto (Don_Modesto) wrote: Ya think? But doesn't the salt in sweat crystalize turning every thread into sand paper if it remains unwashed?

Don Don you know I don't sweat in the dojo. I gracefully move around while playing cymbals but sweat - never.

My obi seldom gets damp - I think the double weave dogi takes care of that and besides salt crystals are nothing compared to the rigors of the modern washing machine.

My obi is very soft.

Willy Lee (willy_lee) wrote: I mean, what if someone made up a "tradition" and told it to you as a gag? =wl

I'm sorry for not being exactly topical, but building off of this, has anyone seen pictures of the (please forgive me) hysterically funny-looking Imperial hats? The tall, weird, black bootlike things with the little chinstrap that the Emperor and the court wears (Shoguns too)? It's got no origin that anyone can account for, but is assumed to be another adopted relic of mainland tradition from the era of Shotoku Taishi; my Japanese History Sensei's theory is that the ambassadors from the mainland just tied their boots to their heads with the laces right before meeting with ol' Shotoku, just to screw with him, and that the Chinese Emperor has been laughing about it for centuries. Ahh, tradition.

Josh Bisker wrote: my Japanese History Sensei's theory is that the ambassadors from the mainland just tied their boots to their heads with the laces right before meeting with ol' Shotoku, just to screw with him, and that the Chinese Emperor has been laughing about it for centuries. Ahh, tradition.

ROFL -- that's priceless, even if it turns out to be untrue.

When I got married, I was told to carry my wife on my back around the table three times; I was told it was part of an ancient traditional wedding. What the hell, I thought, I'm all dressed up in this funny suit anyway. Didn't think too much of the family friends cracking up hysterically in the front row, though.

=wl

Peter Rehse (PeterR) wrote: My obi seldom gets damp - I think the double weave dogi takes care of that and besides salt crystals are nothing compared to the rigors of the modern washing machine.

It varies, I think - my obi is almost always at least damp after class, and often quite wet (I'm not good at much, but I sure can sweat).

Actually, it's been my experience that most of the wear comes from the dryer - line dried dogi last much longer (but tend to chafe my baby soft skin).

Best,

Chris

Mark Dobro (Doka) wrote: Funnily enough, I don't find that my obi gets sweaty! It is outside of my gi and mostly inside of my hakama!

Maybe I tend to sweat more than you, but I often have both layers of my belt soaked through after class. I've even had the koshiita in my hakama soaked through, too...

-- Jun

Mark Dobro - very well stated regarding your training being the polishing and the washing being the tarnishing of your belt. I agree.

Willy, Chris Li -

As you say, we each value what we value. I cannot help that I see no value in the option you describe, however. It is as if you want to learn Aikido, but you do not want to use Aikido to learn.

Those two things are not the same.

As for the gym sock, your comparison was clear - equating your obi with a sock. Neither of greater value than the other. My comparison, of my training with a piece of clothing (my obi), still stands solvent, though. My belt is a metaphor for my training.

Can things be alike at all, or are all things different? One thing informs another, informs another, and informs another. We say someone is, "as sharp as a tack," or we say of someone, "she is a pistol."

Are these people really tacks or pistols? No, but this is the poetry of expression, getting at deeper things. This is like the other, and as I understand the other, so may I understand this.

On the mats we make a physical poetry. If that does not carry with us off of the mats, into interpersonal poetry, ethical poetry, visual poetry, etc., then our time training is wasted.

So there is your obi. Is there a lesson you can take from it? Is there someway for you to continue your aikido now that you are off the mats? Or is this world kept completely separate from the world on the mats? Yes, those worlds are separate in some ways, but built so that aikido can leak into the other, not the other way around.

There is value in treating your obi with respect (in not letting it lie on the ground), and as a metaphor (not washing it). You can, of course, choose not to. It is your own path. But discussions of carrying aikido beyond the threshold of the dojo then become silly, don't they?

Really, who would apply basketball-in-daily-life and afford their gym socks their due reverence?

(yes, that's tongue-in-cheek).

Tim Rohr (Magma) wrote: Willy, Chris Li - As you say, we each value what we value. I cannot help that I see no value in the option you describe, however. It is as if you want to learn Aikido, but you do not want to use Aikido to learn. Those two things are not the same.

So, because I don't choose to follow a made up modern "tradition" (one that, I might add, was not commonly held to when I trained in Japan) I'm not using Aikido to learn? How do you reach that conclusion?

Tim Rohr (Magma) wrote: As for the gym sock, your comparison was clear - equating your obi with a sock. Neither of greater value than the other. My comparison, of my training with a piece of clothing (my obi), still stands solvent, though. My belt is a metaphor for my training.

I suppose that I could make my gym sock a metaphor for my training - there's as much justification for that historically as the "tradition" of the obi. There's nothing wrong with making up whatever metaphors you like, I just don't feel the need for it. Anyway, I prefer to wear clean clothing .

Best,

Chris

Jun Akiyama (akiy) wrote: Maybe I tend to sweat more than you, but I often have both layers of my belt soaked through after class. I've even had the koshiita in my hakama soaked through, too... -- Jun

Actually, I don't sweat much. I can train (either in the dojo or the gym) until I throw up, but I am never "very" sweaty. I am quite fit too, so it is not just not putting in the effort!

I guess I am just lucky?

I *think* this will be my last post on this thread.

Tim Rohr (Magma) wrote: As you say, we each value what we value. I cannot help that I see no value in the option you describe, however. It is as if you want to learn Aikido, but you do not want to use Aikido to learn.

Um, you can do what you want, I know I will. Can we do this without the condescending tone, however?

Can things be alike at all, or are all things different? One thing informs another, informs another, and informs another. We say someone is, "as sharp as a tack," or we say of someone, "she is a pistol."

Yes. We call these "metaphors". Or "figurative language".

On the mats we make a physical poetry. If that does not carry with us off of the mats, into interpersonal poetry, ethical poetry, visual poetry, etc., then our time training is wasted.

Personally I find physical poetry to be a pretty decent result in itself. Certainly not everyone wishes to glean non-physical benefits from aikido.

There is value in treating your obi with respect (in not letting it lie on the ground), and as a metaphor (not washing it). You can, of course, choose not to. It is your own path. But discussions of carrying aikido beyond the threshold of the dojo then become silly, don't they?

There is value in treating most things with respect, certainly objects you train with. Anything can be treated as a metaphor. I really don't see how me not treating my obi according to your personal metaphor has anything to do with me carrying aikido out of the dojo.

=wl

Wow!!!

This has been a very an interesting rehash of a great deal of previous threads. The new aspects of the analogies and metaphors used have been outstanding. The sincere tone of most of the thread has had me captivated. I just can't help but throw in a bit more input for consideration as this whole thread has me just about to bust a gut. I'll just apologize right up front and explain that my mood is tempered by the news I will be redeployed very soon.

The original question posted has been answered in enough detail. Some of the analogies and metaphors really beg for comment. Not to allow your belt or hakama to touch the mat out of respect, hmm? What about your hands, feet, butt, face, hakama and belt when you are wearing them? If you aren't wearing them, I don't want to practice just at that time with you. In the short time I spent in Japan, I never saw anyone trying to avoid their belt or hakama from touching the mat before, during or after practice. I have heard of such people.

The gym sock analogy, which is what really got me laughing. Again I apologize but every time I saw a reference to the gym sock, I couldn't help but wonder why not a happy sock analogy? I think it would be important to keep the happy sock very clean but maybe that is just me. I suppose if one did not wash the happy sock, it would most certainly develop character of it's own. It would probably change colors over time as well.

About the military uniform analogies; from 1979 up to today I wash or dry-clean all of my uniforms, often. On the good counsel of some well intentioned training partners, I began to clean my dogi's, belts, hakamas and other neat stuff I use to train with, often. When items are too worn, I replace them. Folks in uniform, who don't pay close enough attention to personal and uniform hygiene are not regarded as models by most others. Although there is the allowance for funk in the field, hygiene at home is normally the order of the day.

Some of the other creative inputs kept me with this thread all the way through. I especially enjoyed the freezer method (happy sock?) and the reverse analogy of not only never wash your gear but don't wash period.

Regards

Chris Li wrote:

"So, because I don't choose to follow a made up modern "tradition" (one that, I might add, was not commonly held to when I trained in Japan) I'm not using Aikido to learn? How do you reach that conclusion?"

I reach that conclusion because of the sort of revelation that you make even here in this brief excerpt: you seem more concerned with the *age* of the tradition and *who* keeps it (that it wasn't kept in Japan) than you are about *what* it can teach you.

It really doesn't matter to me if it was started last week by a crazy lady who thought her belt talked to her. Does it have value? Can it teach us something?

I say that it does, and I have touched on part of the meaning and how it can help already... I will more so by the end of this post.

Chris Li wrote:

"I suppose that I could make my gym sock a metaphor for my training - there's as much justification for that historically as the "tradition" of the obi. There's nothing wrong with making up whatever metaphors you like, I just don't feel the need for it."

Here, again, you give away the fact that you're more concerned with the historical authenticity of the tradition than with the benefit it can give you.

Further, no time in the gym that I am aware of profers a complete philosophy of living as aikido does. As I said before, there is no real "basketball-in-every-day-life" on which to base your metaphor of the gym sock.

That being said, I do not mind if someone disagrees with me or holds a different viewpoint. I will talk to them and try to understand them and where they are coming from. However, if their viewpoint or opinion is internally inconsistent, if their personal "truth" simply cannot be true because of an inherent fallacy, then I will challenge that viewpoint.

Therefore, if you *do* walk a basketball-in-every-day-life sort of path, if you truly take the principles of the court and apply them in other areas of your life, then I say that your gym-sock-as-metaphor argument has merit.

In fact, I would say that the metaphor *itself* would have merit in that case. This is a point that you cannot win:

If you *do* live your gym-lessons out in real life, then the metaphor has merit and I would applaud it;

If you do *not* live those lessons, then your ersatz metaphor is spurious, disingenuous, and insincere.

In aikido we find a philosophy of mind-body unity, a unity of the self that, once attained, can be extended to a unity of the self to the world. Through whole-body/mind focus and application, uke's attack can be dissipated and balance returned to the world. But that is the absolute lowest level of this notion of resolution. Greater applications are found off the mat.

In other words, aikido is an attempt to breakdown the duality of our existence. Body/mind, nage/uke, me/you, male/female, human/god, human/nature.

And yet, at the end of a workout, you (impersonal) so willingly inject that duality back into your life. Your time on the mats is demarcated by the threshold of the dojo. This world and that world are completely separate, and that separation is expressed in the disregard for your belt, putting it on the floor.

Just as we train to be completely aware on the mats, not "cutting [our] mind" between techniques (as Hatayama Sensei recently said) but always focused on uke as they get up and attack again, we should not allow our minds to become 'cut' as we step off the mats. Our training continues in our treatment of our belt and training gear... then our training continues as we leave the dojo... our training continues at home... our training continues...

Chris Li wrote:

"I wouldn't put my belt on the floor if the floor were dirty, but I wouldn't put my t-shirt there either..."

It is not just a matter of cleanliness, Chris. Looking at this as a metaphor, the belt is a symbol of my training and time on the mats - a symbol of something I value. The floor is a symbolic place of low or no value. Symbolically, putting your belt on the floor, then, devalues your training. I don't know that I can state it more simply than that.

So, I have explored this metaphor even more deeply having been challenged on it. Can you do the same with your gym sock? If so, GOOD. It has meaning and helps you learn. All that I am saying is that *this* is the way we use aikido to learn, going beyond just simply the learning of aikido on the mats - taking principles with us into other aspects of our lives.

There is value in treating the belt with respect, if you're only willing to see the metaphor. Even if Crazy Edna started the tradition because her belt told her to.

Willy Lee wrote:

"Um, you can do what you want, I know I will. Can we do this without the condescending tone, however?"

Willy, my tone has been simple and straightforward. The portion of my post that you quoted has been addressed more fully in this post now, so I hope that I cleared up my statement.

Willy Lee wrote:

"Yes. We call these "metaphors". Or "figurative language"."

Yes, thank you for keeping up, Willy.

(just kidding)

However, even here I'd say don't get attached to the 'thingness' of the metaphor, labeling it, categorizing it, and putting it aside. Metaphors were not meant to be categorized but explored.

Willy Lee wrote:

"Personally I find physical poetry to be a pretty decent result in itself. Certainly not everyone wishes to glean non-physical benefits from aikido."

Um, this may be a completely different topic if linked, to be sure. However, these people who desire only to learn the physical movements of aikido will never turn those machinations into physical poetry. And, what's more, I tend to place these people barely one step above the thugs that caused O-sensei to be originally protective of aikido, issuing a "rule" of practice that the techniques should not be taught to just anyone, to those who would simply steal the techniques and not apply the deeper principles.

So, this discussion starts on the pre-existent notion that the principles of aikido are as important as the physical techniques.

Willy Lee wrote:

"There is value in treating most things with respect, certainly objects you train with. Anything can be treated as a metaphor. I really don't see how me not treating my obi according to your personal metaphor has anything to do with me carrying aikido out of the dojo."

It is on one level silly to say, and yet on another a simple wisdom to realize: certainly, a metaphor has to have meaning for the person in order for the metaphor to have meaning. That is like saying that in order to learn, you must learn, and in order to do, you must do.

So, here is an aspect of our lives (our treatment of our obi) where we can apply aikido (and martial) principles of awareness, respect, and honor. Do you *do*? Or do you *don't*? If the value is there - value that I have tried nine ways from sunday to explore and relate - then why not do?

Tim,

Having just read the last page bit of this thread I offer the following:

Further, no time in the gym that I am aware of profers a complete philosophy of living as aikido does. As I said before, there is no real "basketball-in-every-day-life" on which to base your metaphor of the gym sock.

Actually, I know of several and encounter them far more frequently than I do any aikido based philosophy.

For example, many of my managers at work have played or do play sports and often use sports examples as metaphors to promote what they believe to more moral or spiritual behavior. And yet none of them treat gym socks as "special" in any way.

As far as other martial arts go, neither bjj nor judo have any rules about belts on the mat of which I am aware. In the clubs I have trained, it's not uncommon for belts to come undone during hard randori and they are often discarded and tossed to the side. I haven't found judoka or bjj'ers to be less moral or less spiritual than aikidoist, but I suppose YMMV.

I find myself agreeing with Willy, when he wrote:

There is value in treating most things with respect, certainly objects you train with. Anything can be treated as a metaphor. I really don't see how me not treating my obi according to your personal metaphor has anything to do with me carrying aikido out of the dojo.

Regards,

Paul

Paul -

As I said in my previous post, if the metaphor is sincere and has meaning for you, then I applaud it. So, for your example of sports-analogies I just smile and nod, having heard these myself.

However, these analogies do not approach the whole of life, IMO, only certain aspects or situations. Maybe it is better to say that those analogies speak of ways of operating and managing certain events whereas the tenets of budo deal with self-improvement and perfection.

And, again, I don't care if judo or bjj practitioners follow this tradition. I care if the tradition has merit. It is, after all, *my* art. I can't lower myself to another's standard. Personally, I have two thoughts if your belt comes undone in the middle of randori:

1) You did not tie it properly, nor tight enough, which is likely indicative of a cut-mind again (see, another metaphor... they're everywhere if you look for them)

and

2) In the middle of personal survival, you take care of yourself; as *soon* as the randori is over, however, you get that belt up off the ground.

That is just simple respect.

The lessons are there in the tradition, and that gives the tradition its value. One must invite perfection into one's life if one wishes to know truth. Subscribe to metaphor, to this metaphor, and if it has meaning for you then you have found a truth.

It really doesn't matter to me if it was started last week by a crazy lady who thought her belt talked to her. Does it have value? Can it teach us something?

I don't know how to say this without it being a little condescending...but I think this is kind of sad. It reminds me of a certain teacher, who when questioned about the historical inaccuracies of a lecture during an aikido class, told me 'you're not looking deeply enough'.

Hogwash.

Inaccuracies are just that...crazy ladies are just that...made up traditions (kwanza comes to mind) are just that. Made up.

And before anyone pitches a fit, I'm african american myself, and I still say, hogwash. If it floats your boat, that's just fine...but please do not look down on us that look for a little truth in advertising as if we are 'less spiritual'. We just happen to like our heads a little below the level of the clouds.

Ron Tisdale

Tim,

However, these analogies do not approach the whole of life, IMO, only certain aspects or situations. Maybe it is better to say that those analogies speak of ways of operating and managing certain events whereas the tenets of budo deal with self-improvement and perfection.

Anything can deal with self-improvement or perfection if approached sincerely. Budo is not unique in this.

And, again, I don't care if judo or bjj practitioners follow this tradition. I care if the tradition has merit. It is, after all, *my* art. I can't lower myself to another's standard.

Are you suggesting that bjj/judo has lower standards? I suspect that is ultimately what Willy, et al are objecting to. If someone has the same right to call an art theirs, you cannot say your standards are inherently better, per se.

Personally, I have two thoughts if your belt comes undone in the middle of randori: 1) You did not tie it properly, nor tight enough

It's impossible to tie a belt so that it does not come off during an hour's worth of hard randori, particularly in bjj on a consistent basis.

2) In the middle of personal survival, you take care of yourself; as *soon* as the randori is over, however, you get that belt up off the ground. That is just simple respect.

I disagree. Picking up the belt, is an arbitrary rule at most or a personal preference. If I trained somewhere and that was the rule, I would follow it. But it wouldn't have any meaning beyond that.

For example, let's suppose a school had randori as 5 minute rounds and at the end of a round, you immediately get another partner and start with no breaks --- or you sit out the round. Given a choice between retying my belt and sitting out the round, or setting it aside and training the next round....I'm training (and just about everyone I know would do likewise).

Regards,

Paul

Ron Tisdale wrote: I don't know how to say this without it being a little condescending...but I think this is kind of sad. It reminds me of a certain teacher, who when questioned about the historical inaccuracies of a lecture during an aikido class, told me 'you're not looking deeply enough'. Hogwash. Inaccuracies are just that...crazy ladies are just that...made up traditions (kwanza comes to mind) are just that. Made up. And before anyone pitches a fit, I'm african american myself, and I still say, hogwash. If it floats your boat, that's just fine...but please do not look down on us that look for a little truth in advertising as if we are 'less spiritual'. We just happen to like our heads a little below the level of the clouds. Ron Tisdale

Well, that says it better than I ever could have.

Best,

Chris