How to teach and train relaxation

I wonder how much crap and criticism they did take for going out side the box. As the years pass they are heroes and innovators, but in the time that they were doing it they were crackpots and hippocrits.

On the other hand, while I think that more of this information needs to be out there, I think there is a point of rightful discrimination, too. The idea is "if you show everyone, then everyone will know your methods of defense". And it's a thought worth mulling over.

At the moment, I'm having trouble reconciling Dan's multiple personalities. First he can't tell anyone because he's sworn to secrecy, then he can show you but only if you come to his house, and now he wants to get it on with doing this stuff in the MMA's and on TV. That Dan.... he's a caution.

Of course, if you have the skills they're yours to do what you want with them, but it needs to be noted that in the long-extant Asian cultures there was a reason for a certain amount of caution. You need to give to charity but you don't need to bankrupt your family.... there is a nice medium balance.

FWIW

Mike

Mike Sigman wrote: On the other hand, while I think that more of this information needs to be out there, I think there is a point of rightful discrimination, too. The idea is "if you show everyone, then everyone will know your methods of defense". And it's a thought worth mulling over. At the moment, I'm having trouble reconciling Dan's multiple personalities. First he can't tell anyone because he's sworn to secrecy, then he can show you but only if you come to his house, and now he wants to get it on with doing this stuff in the MMA's and on TV. That Dan.... he's a caution. FWIW Mike

Well, I'll take that apart. Hopefully in the spirit in which it was given
Your note of rightful dscrinimination? Am I exempted? If not than I assume I can do what I want without a need for your approval?

Second ......my "personality?" Now I know your kidding. Is this the guy who repeats like a mantra ...Leave personality out of it, Leave personality out of it?...did I miss the ....."unless Mike says its OK to comment on anyone's personality part?"

Well, hmf......agitated mumbling and grumbling......
1. I still won't talk about how to do these things in public.
2. I still won't go travel and do seminars. I reserve what time I have to go be a student of a koryu I belong too.. And no I don't really care if it meets anyones approval.
3. I didn't say anything about MMA and T.V. Where did ya get that?
Just in case we're pretending to care what I actually said.
I said there is a small group of guys starting to look at IS in MMA.
Three of the ones I met were from CMA, and they told me of others. One is fighting internationally. They don't know me, one knows me now but didn't when we met. Another is writing and doing seminars. I have nothing to do with their choices. Further, for those who don't know, most MMA work is being done by thousands in gyms and fight clubs all over the world. Who have nothing to do with professionals on T.V.
Thats just more presumption. Something Mike cautions others about often.

Last, why did I change my mind about helping? Now that IS an interesting question

Now which part ... do you want to "not get personal" about first.

[quote=Mike Sigman]Of course, if you have the skills they're yours to do what you want with them,

Hmmmm
Dan

The fact that skills are something you have to sweat for, to shugyo, eliminates 99.99% of those who say they want them. The remaining small number, by dint of the work they have to go through to excel, are not so likely to broadcast their knowledge.

Besides, in the Real World (TM), do the pursuers of esoteric martial skills really worry about facing a foe who is more powerful in his skills? Unless you're a professional assassin or mercenary (who lost his automatic weapon or radioactive polonium), it's more academic to say that you want to be at the top of the fightin' arts food chain.

And if someone does surpass you in skill, bully for them. They have earned it. I sometimes wonder whether Sagawa found it lonely at the top, and wished there were someone he could vie against and fail, so that the flames of failure would temper and force him to work his way up to an even higher level.

Dan Harden wrote: Well, I'll take that apart. Hopefully in the spirit in which it was given Your note of rightful dscrinimination? Am I exempted? If not than I assume I can do what I want without a need for your approval?

Of course. You do what you want to do, Dan. But rest assured that if you develop a reputation for telling everyone stuff that other people show you, you won't get shown very much.

Second ......my "personality?" Now I know your kidding. Is this the guy who repeats like a mantra ...Leave personality out of it, Leave personality out of it?...did I miss the ....."unless Mike says its OK to comment on anyone's personality part?"

No, you may have missed Reading Comprehension 101, though. I'm not questioning your personality, just things you've said in the past. Your choices and public comments are not your personality, Dan.

FWIW

Mike

Cady Goldfield wrote: I sometimes wonder whether Sagawa found it lonely at the top, and wished there were someone he could vie against and fail, so that the flames of failure would temper and force him to work his way up to an even higher level.

Well Sagawa wrote and was interviewed and quoted but refused to do seminars. And you had to go to him to learn and he refused many ansd turned them away.Some very famous men.
Others did seminars all the time.
Some taught but only prvately.
Weird huh?
People acting like...well individuals. We need to stop that.
Why can't we get people to behave like we want them too
Doggone it.
Cheers
Dan

Cady Goldfield wrote: The fact that skills are something you have to sweat for, to shugyo, eliminates 99.99% of those who say they want them. The remaining small number, by dint of the work they have to go through to excel, are not so likely to broadcast their knowledge. [[snip]]And if someone does surpass you in skill, bully for them. They have earned it. I sometimes wonder whether Sagawa found it lonely at the top, and wished there were someone he could vie against and fail, so that the flames of failure would temper and force him to work his way up to an even higher level.

Well, I dunno, Cady.... each to his own, I guess. I know from my own teachers in the last 30 years of looking for info on "internal strength" that most people will only turn loose rudimentary information and if they think you'll just go blab it, they won't tell you at all. I tend to be open to the right people and closed to the ones who only want attention... but each to his own.

Regards,

Mike

Mike Sigman wrote: Of course. You do what you want to do, Dan. But rest assured that if you develop a reputation for telling everyone stuff that other people show you, you won't get shown very much. FWIW Mike

How about you stick to -a- topic and leave the "me" out of it.
Give it a try.

I have my own commitments, obligations and propriety.
I don't really need the help or advice.
Thanks anyway .
Dan

Well, ya know Mike, stuff has been around for probably a couple thousand years at least, and even with the Internet now, it still can't be learned by "blabbing," but has to be shown and felt. So, if you allow for the proportionally larger population now, I'd hazard a guess that still the same percent of Earth's human population knows any of these skills, or would be willing to dedicate a sizable chunk of their lives to gaining them.

I wouldn't lose sleep over it. The sun is still gonna go red giant in 5 or 6 billion years, and humans will be long gone before then anyway, according to most religious and scientific belief modes.

Dan Harden wrote: Are you talking to me? Any reason you feel obligated to talk down to me and try to help explain things to me...yet again?

It's not always about you, Dan. You're the one who dragged Wang Hai Jun's name into the mud as a source. I know the kind of strictures those guys are under, even if you don't. As I said, you can do what you want, but I thought you might not be aware that people like Wang Hai Jun should not be both presented as a source and be expected to follow your whimsical decisions of what to show and not to show. Assuming of course, that you don't already know everything and that you're only going to his workshops as a social affair, chat, be friendly, hobnob with your equals, etc.

You have no detailed understanding of certain restrictions I'm under or not. A fact to which -one person- here has replied "People are holding back progress due to antiquated notions of secrecy." And now "If you develop a reptuation for sharing you wont be shown....." Which personality are -we- talking too, Sybil? I have my own commitments, obligations and propriety. I don't really need the help or advice.Thanks anyway . Dan

You're welcome. Who, by the way, do you think I feel more obligated to... people like Chen Xiao Wang, his cousins and their students, etc., or to you? I.e., would I honor the traditions of Chenjiagou or some hamlet in Massachusetts? Sure you have your own commitments, etc..... but I was giving you good advice, hotshot.

Mike Sigman

Dragged through the mud? Other than paying the man a compliment? What ever could you mean? And then watching as you drew upon Tohie's guys and reviewed YOUR experiences and named names and details, and then listened as you judged others movements from video footage

Once again doing what you tell everyone else not to do.
This is why you need your own forum where you can make up this crap as you go along and boot those who dissagree.
After being banned from several places.

Hi Mike

When are you coming to mass. to meet dan

stan

Hey.....
What are -you- doing here?
Take a minute and read the thread. Well ok ok more than a minute Everyone going along talking......
WHAM!! mike bite.
What was that?
A mike bite
Oh well.
Dan

Stan Baker wrote: When are you coming to mass. to meet dan

Stan.... when are you "coming to meet" anyone at all? Your reputation is simply to instigate and backstab..... throughout the Taiji world. Instead of talking about other people, always, let's hear some of what you've done.

Regards,

Mike Sigman

This is where it turns to another poison pill thread ender from Mike. Don't bother answering Stan. He really isn't worth the trouble
Jun's pretty good. He'll dump the whole personal attack thing in time and make a new thread.

Jun
Can you remove this crap and leave the thread a good read? You can just throw my replies in the dumper and put all of mikes smack talk in open discussions unanswered by me.
Thanks
Dan

This very interesting thread is starting to get polluted......

Mark

P.S. Hi Stan.

Again I'd caution to just wait a minute.
Jun's usually on the money. If its not on topic wait till tomm.
Then the thread will stay clean.

Dan

Hi Mike,
what are you talking about I did not know I had reputation , who have i backstabbed.

stan

Dan Harden wrote: Again I'd caution to just wait a minute. Don't let tempers flair. Jun's usually on the money. If its not on topic wait till tomm. Then the thread will stay clean. How was everones New year Did you learn how to R-E-L-A-X any better? Dan

Hi Dan,

Had a nice New Year's with the family in CT. Just got back. How about you?

Mark

Dan Harden wrote: Again I'd caution to just wait a minute. Jun's usually on the money. If its not on topic wait till tomm. Then the thread will stay clean. Dan

lol
I'd say that about 98% of this thread has not been on topic if we want to be picky about what constitutes "how to teach and train relaxation." That would leave, oh, maybe 1.5 pages of posts.

We need daycare staff in this sandbox.

Jim Sorrentino wrote: Mark, you started the thread --- do you believe that you have received sufficient answers to these questions?

Sorry I checked out for a few days. Jim, when I posted the thread I was never under the misconception that I would or could receive a sufficient answer. I do not believe a sufficient answer can be shared solely via a written medium. I have been active on various forums for about 10 years, hence I have few false illusions of what information can be affectively shared. My intent was merely to start a thread about a topic I find interesting and see where the discussion led. IMO, there have been several interesting posts and side discussions. As always there is also lots of noise. I have gotten much better at simply scrolling past posts full of useless noise and mining the information I find interesting. This thread has also allowed me to better understand several of the posters here, which is helpful in understanding where their comments are coming from. Overall, my opinion is this has been a decent thread.

Happy New Year,

Mark J.

PS. Centeredness is far more than a physical state. Often when a thread gets heated we can see who is centered and who is not.

Mark Chiappetta wrote: Hi Dan, Had a nice New Year's with the family in CT. Just got back. How about you? Mark

Work. Thanks for asking
I'll be emailing this week with a schedule

Happy New years
Dan

Mark Jakabcsin ROCKS.
Oops. That was not on topic...

Confidential to Dan who edited his post:
Wow! And I was amazed when Mary had a little lamb, and old MacDonald had a farm...

Seriously, BIG congrats to him et ux. Give him a huge hug for me if he trains tomm.

Mark Jakabcsin wrote: My intent was merely to start a thread about a topic I find interesting and see where the discussion led. IMO, there have been several interesting posts and side discussions. As always there is also lots of noise.

Actually, the thread has been helpful in getting me to mull over more the Ki Society approach and compare it the various approaches I know of, the probable logic based on how things work, etc. This afternoon I sporadically wrote a fairly long post (more in response to Jim Sorrentino's comments, but in answer to your original question) about how to teach and train relaxation. It was turning into a pretty good post when for some reason my spam filter triggered something that deleted the post and put me back to the start with just Jim's quotes. I hate it when that happens.

Regardless, I've recreated a lot of it and decided it would go well with some of the other stuff I'm writing on another forum on the same topic. The overriding point is that you can't get much from the internet because of the noise and because you can't feel it... so most of these things seem to work best not as communications, but as thought starters.

Just a thought.

Mike