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06-27-2005, 01:55 PM
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#1
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Dojo: Kenshinkai Yoshinkan Aikido
Location: Portsmouth
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 450
Offline
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Re: Grading too fast???????
Yudansha is 2nd Dan up, or have I been confussed all these years?
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Osu!
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06-27-2005, 02:40 PM
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#2
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Dojo: Hombu Aikikai /North London Aikido Dojo
Location: Tokyo , Japan
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 52
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Re: Grading too fast???????
Actually it is from shodan. I know a bit about Japanese so let me try and explain it. If it was written in kanji 有段者 Sorry if you can't see Japanese font but basically there are 3 kanjis. The first one is read "yuu" and means "there is" / "have" The 2nd kanji is for "dan" which you already know the meaning of and the 3rd kanji is read "sha" and means person. So translated a yuudansha is a person who has a dan grade.
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06-27-2005, 04:17 PM
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#3
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Dojo: Kenshinkai Yoshinkan Aikido
Location: Portsmouth
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 450
Offline
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Re: Grading too fast???????
Which is what I used to think, but I have been told the contrary for along time. Like when I turned 16, I was told a young adult was not 16, but 17!!!!!!
Many still say Yudansha is NiDan up!
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Osu!
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06-27-2005, 04:41 PM
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#4
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Location: Auckland
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 971
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Re: "Yudansha"
I've never heard Yudansha used to refer to anything other than, any blackbelt grade, including Shodan. As opposed to mudansha who are those below blackbelt.
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"When your only tool is a hammer every problem starts to look like a nail"
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06-27-2005, 05:19 PM
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#5
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Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 6,049
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Re: "Yudansha"
Quote:
Michael Fooks wrote:
I've never heard Yudansha used to refer to anything other than, any blackbelt grade, including Shodan.
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Likewise; I've never heard about this exception that a shodan ranked person is not yudansha. It does't make sense linguistically nor does it agree with my experiences (eg receiving a "yudansha passport" from Aikikai hombu dojo upon reaching shodan).
-- Jun
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07-19-2005, 03:55 AM
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#6
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Dojo: Shinwakai
Location: Reading
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 14
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Re: "Yudansha"
Similar to what Steven has said, this is my understanding of Yudansha:
Yu means "have"
Dan means "Grade"
Sha is a term used for a group of people
So basically it means groups of people who have a grade.
Mudansha is the opposite, 'group of people without a grade'.
If you look at Kendo and use them as an example, there are no grades except Dan grades. But typically they will grade you a Kyu grade so that you can see progress, but there are no belts in Kendo.
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07-19-2005, 06:08 AM
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#7
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Dojo: Bosatsu
Location: Copenhagen
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 25
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Re: "Yudansha"
Maybe someone confused Kodansha and Yudansha.
Kodansha meaning those with high dan grades and Yudansha meaning anyone holding a dan grade.
- Jan
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07-19-2005, 06:45 AM
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#8
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Dojo: Shinwakai
Location: Reading
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 14
Offline
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Re: "Yudansha"
I thought 'ko' meant minor or lesser? 'O' meaning greater?
To explain my point:
'ko-ouchi gari' - 'small inner reap'
'O-uchi Gari' - 'large inner reap'
Also you have:
'kote gaeshi'
'ko' meaning minor, and 'te' meaning hand combined to make 'minor hand' or wrist.
This may just be me showing my ignorance however
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07-19-2005, 07:21 AM
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#9
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Dojo: Hiroshima Kokusai Dojo
Location: Hiroshima, Japan
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,308
Offline
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Re: "Yudansha"
Quote:
Steven Simister wrote:
I thought 'ko' meant minor or lesser? 'O' meaning greater?
To explain my point:
'ko-ouchi gari' - 'small inner reap'
'O-uchi Gari' - 'large inner reap'
Also you have:
'kote gaeshi'
'ko' meaning minor, and 'te' meaning hand combined to make 'minor hand' or wrist.
This may just be me showing my ignorance however
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There are 270 homomyms for KO (long o), one of which means high. Obviously, not all of these can go with '-dansha' to make up a meaningful word. Koudansha will work, but if you use this term out of context with the average Japanese, they will probably think you mean the famous publishing house. Dan also means stairs, columns, paragraphs, a unit of cloth and a unit of land. However, fudangi (dan is the same character as in yudansha) are ordinary everyday clothes.
So yudansha is a possessor of rank and this obviously includes the first rank shodan (= beginning rank).
Best regards,
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P A Goldsbury
_______________________
Kokusai Dojo,
Hiroshima,
Japan
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07-19-2005, 07:29 AM
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#10
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Dojo: Shinwakai
Location: Reading
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 14
Offline
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Re: "Yudansha"
Thanks Peter, that does actually make sense. I was relying purely on my Japanese knowledge from Aikido/Judo etc.
You might be able to anser this one also. Does the 'sha' in yudansha mean group or individual?
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07-19-2005, 08:35 AM
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#11
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Dojo: Hiroshima Kokusai Dojo
Location: Hiroshima, Japan
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,308
Offline
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Re: "Yudansha"
Quote:
Steven Simister wrote:
Thanks Peter, that does actually make sense. I was relying purely on my Japanese knowledge from Aikido/Judo etc.
You might be able to anser this one also. Does the 'sha' in yudansha mean group or individual?
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It could mean either, since Japanese does not have plurals.
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P A Goldsbury
_______________________
Kokusai Dojo,
Hiroshima,
Japan
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07-19-2005, 08:37 AM
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#12
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Dojo: Bosatsu
Location: Copenhagen
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 25
Offline
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Re: "Yudansha"
Hi Steven
Yes, as Peter Goldsbury nicely explained then "ko", or more properly transcribed "kou" in koudansha is not the same, as "ko" in ko-uchi-gari. From the context or from the kanji will you see the difference :-)
Brgds Jan
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07-20-2005, 02:04 PM
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#13
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Dojo: Shinwakai
Location: Reading
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 14
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Re: "Yudansha"
Hopefully the Japanes lessons I will start taking in September will pay off then
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07-20-2005, 03:29 PM
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#14
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Location: Orange County, CA
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 87
Offline
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Re: "Yudansha"
Yeah, leave it to the Japanese to have an on-yomi of the character meaning high or tall to be ko with a long o and then also have a kun-yomi of the character meaning small be just ko. It can be confusing, especially when writing it out in english or romaji; surely with all the multiple homonyms in Japanese, the use of kanji will continue to remain essential.
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