Daito Ryu vs. Aikido

You heard it here first folks.

The evil Dr. S. and his equally evil pet Shodothug will be at AikiExpo 06 doing a joint demo/workshop.

We will start bombarding Stan with Blogs on the short comings of just about everyone (excluding our esteemed selves of course) to make this fantastic event possibly. How could he possibly refuse.

Peter: that was a good one...but carefull not to draw the UnNamed one in! He might hear us and the virus could spread!

Coming back to aiki stuff. As in Daito ryu active resitance isn't permited, instructors can do really amazing things. In generally, their attackers are much less experienced. Those two factors combined, aiki miracles happend and we are not surprised at all.

Most of the folks I know training in Daito ryu are ex wrestlers, judoka, aikidoka, etc. When Kondo Sensei asks for an attack he often first has the biggest guy in the room (I think Juan usually qualifies) throw him with a judo throw as the attack. Only after he is satisfied that the attack is competent does he then demo the technique. At least that's my experience. No magic...just damn good technique.

That said, often you do see the things you speak of.

Ron

Jeanne Shepard wrote: I had my first exposure to Daito Ryu Aikijitsu in Stockholm a few months ago. The teacher (Jorma Lyly Sensei) is a student of Seigo Okamoto Sensei. I was shocked to find how subtle (and effective) it was, not at all what my Aikido friends had led me to believe it would be like. Jeanne

that's an interesting bit of info, I didn't know he did Daito Ryu as well. When I met him at an Aikido seminar a couple of years back, he was introduced by Endo Sensei as one of his top students. He regularly comes over and teaches at an Aikido dojo in a town not too far from me. I got too uke for him back then, he's very good .

regards

Bryan

Ron Tisdale wrote: Peter: that was a good one...but carefull not to draw the UnNamed one in! He might hear us and the virus could spread! Most of the folks I know training in Daito ryu are ex wrestlers, judoka, aikidoka, etc. When Kondo Sensei asks for an attack he often first has the biggest guy in the room (I think Juan usually qualifies) throw him with a judo throw as the attack. Only after he is satisfied that the attack is competent does he then demo the technique. At least that's my experience. No magic...just damn good technique. That said, often you do see the things you speak of. Ron

Juan Ribot?

Yes, I believe that is his last name...big guy...looks like he lives in a gym, you know...

RT

Yes, that would be Juan Ribot.

Hi

Coming from Yoshinkan, I don't see there being a huge difference. I started in the early Yoshinkan forms, which some of my fellow Yoshinkai Aikidoka of today describe as crude. I tend to like them! But to say the differences between Daito Ryu and Yoshinkan Aikido are probable teaching method, kamae and strictness of kihon waza.

I am a little puzzled by the poster, and I hope he can inform me. He says Ikkyo, Nikyo, etc., which are first principle, second principle, etc. In Yoshinkan we say Ikkajo, Nikajo, etc., which is first control, second control, etc. From the Daito Ryu I have been exposed to (Obata Sensei) they use the later (Kajo) and it was O'Sensei who changed it to principle (Kyo) post WWII. Somebody enlighten me, please!

I look forward to further posts (what do you reckon Ron?).

Osu!

Si

Si Wilson wrote: Hi Coming from Yoshinkan, I don't see there being a huge difference. I started in the early Yoshinkan forms, which some of my fellow Yoshinkai Aikidoka of today describe as crude. I tend to like them! But to say the differences between Daito Ryu and Yoshinkan Aikido are probable teaching method, kamae and strictness of kihon waza.

I don't see a huge difference there either...some of the forms are a little different, some of the intent is much stronger in places (in my opinion); more invasive.

I am a little puzzled by the poster, and I hope he can inform me. He says Ikkyo, Nikyo, etc., which are first principle, second principle, etc. In Yoshinkan we say Ikkajo, Nikajo, etc., which is first control, second control, etc. From the Daito Ryu I have been exposed to (Obata Sensei) they use the later (Kajo) and it was O'Sensei who changed it to principle (Kyo) post WWII. Somebody enlighten me, please! I look forward to further posts (what do you reckon Ron?).

Well, some groups make little distinction between the aikido names and the daito ryu ones...some groups make little distinction between aikido and daito ryu period. It can vary widely. Strictly speaking though, 'kajo' refers to a list of different technques, not just one technique (like ikkyo, for instance). Ippon dori (ikkyo more or less) is a technique in the ikkajo syllabus...but there are about 30 different techniques in that syllabus...not just one.

From what I've been able to understand about the original poster, their lineage goes back to someone whose teaching record in north america seems to be a bit mixed...It would not surprise me to see some very good practitioners in that lineage, and some rather 'interesting' ones. But that can happen even in the best of schools!

Best,
Ron

The reason I say Ikkyo, Nikyo, etc instead of Ikkajo, etc is because that is the way I have been taught. My sensei was an uchi deshi for Yonezawa Sensei. I am not sure why I am being taught -kyo instead of -kajo. Possibly to keep a better degree of understanding with Aikido. It could be out of respect to O Sensei because he was the more compassionate man over Sokaku Takeda. I am really not sure myself.

Ron, I have to agree. Sensei in an unusual practitioner. 43 years old. 40 years martial arts. USMC 4 years. Police for a number of years. Bouncer for even more. Ranked black belt (or comprable) in 4 styles. He just settled down and became a full time sensei last year.

Interesting...I didn't know that Yonezawa had uchideshi in the states...could you elaborate? As I said, mixed bag with his students...

http://www.e-budo.com/forum/search.php?searchid=3650 gives quite a bit of the varied background. But if you like what your teacher teaches, and he/she behaves appropriately, that's all that really matters.

Ron

He was not uchideshi in the states. He went to Yonezawa in Hokkaido and lived as uchi deshi for 2 years (I think), sometime during or after his time in the USMC. I really do like what I am being taught, even if it is not traditional, but more than that I am confident in the effectiveness of what I am being taught.

Ah, is your instructor John Denora? I heard that he stayed in hokaido for a few months...tops. Any documentation on that?

Ron

Nope, not John Denora. Mike Tan. For some info on him, here is a link to a set of DVDs he was just asked to make : http://www.trsdirect.com/product.php?sku=SD-77 Everything that the promo says is true, but is hyped up a few notches because the company had bad luck with the last aikido guy they dealt with. And he is actually 5'4".

Dustin Acuff wrote: Ron, I have to agree. Sensei in an unusual practitioner. 43 years old. 40 years martial arts.

So he started MA training being 3 years old? Wow!! I mean WOW!!!
Dustin, be serious. No one will believe in such nonsens.

That's not that hard to do if he was trained by family. My instructor has two kids - both of them under 4 years old. They get both serious training and muck-around stuff. They know the basics of techniques and are really good at falls and taking balance. Several times we've seen the younger child, who has a love of climbing things, do back flips off chairs and land in a perfect front breakfall.