Aikido Frauds

Brenda - I got you beat ...

I made this ten years ago: http://discovering-aikido.com/aik/nobo_jutsu.html

So send me your money ... not him.

Rupert Atkinson wrote: Brenda - I got you beat ... I made this ten years ago: http://discovering-aikido.com/aik/nobo_jutsu.html So send me your money ... not him.

Forget the Dan certificates; it's almost worth sending you money just for this:

Excerpt from the above URL where Rupert Atkinson wrote: Nobo-jutsu Zen Ukemi ... In training to be silent, train in a place where no one can hear . In training to be noisy, train so that no one can hear.

I heard of an individual who was promoted to 5th dan, I believe, after 3 years of training (non mail order though, so I guess thats ok )

Also, I believe the master title in taekwando (spelling?) and some other martial arts is allowed to be used upon reaching 6th dan? Though I could be wrong.

John and Dave,

I believe you are wanting to accomplish something along the lines of the WHO (world health organization). The "WHO" is an organization and website that one interested in medical school can refer to for a list of ligitimate and fradulant medical schools around the world. This sort of thing would be a major udertaking but doable.

Personally, I think it is a great idea. Good ideas! I have seen people "bastardize" the art as well and nothing sickens me more regarding the preservation of lineage and quality. Now that I have been trained uneder a major organization, I can easily detect a independant and a fraud. The quality, methodology, ideology, etc..is simply.....unfound.

Organizations are in place for a good reason. Most independants despise what a organization stands for. It is well worth the effort and the journey will be fruitful if the path of becoming afiliated with a respectable organization is sought. There are merely my opinions and everyone maynot share my thought.

Brad

Brad:

I agree with a lot of what you say. However, there are many independents that have quality programs and prior lineages with quality instruction. There are others, however, that call into question the very issues of quality, lineage, etc. It's generally political for the break with an ego undertone. Some of the breaks are legitimate-abusive instructors, unfairness or favoritism in promotional policies, etc. As noted in the recent dialogue with one website-we have now been honored with a mail order 5th dan program. The challenges to keep aikido out of the quagmire of mail order or sokey dokey ranking systems will likely increase. Unfortunately, there are those out there who simply have no clue.

You would not be practicing Aikido today if Uesieba thought as you did.
Mary

Brad wrote"
Personally, I think it is a great idea. Good ideas! I have seen people "bastardize" the art as well and nothing sickens me more regarding the preservation of lineage and quality. Now that I have been trained uneder a major organization, I can easily detect a independant and a fraud. The quality, methodology, ideology, etc..is simply.....unfound.

Organizations are in place for a good reason. Most independants despise what a organization stands for. It is well worth the effort and the journey will be fruitful if the path of becoming afiliated with a respectable organization is sought. There are merely my opinions and everyone maynot share my thought.

Brad[/quote]

IMHO, organizations provide the political hierarchy, and, if credible, a known curriculum and grading structure. But I know many that feel what is important is the TEACHER. Much Aikido can be learned from a good teacher, whether or not he/she belongs to a particular organization, or to any organization at all. And belonging to an organization will not turn a bad teacher into a good one. What is a comfortable fit for any student is a function of what they are looking for. And whether a teacher is labeled as bad or good is a very subjective matter. Personally, I prefer to decide those things for myself.

[quote=Mary Eastland]You would not be practicing Aikido today if Uesieba thought as you did.
Mary [quote]

While that may be very true, a lot of the people doing these independent "styles" are definitely not of the same caliber as O'Sensei. And that in my opinion is a big issue. Example: 3rd dan in a legitimate style suddenly becomes 10th dan in his style. One that tested no higher than 2nd dan gets eventually promoted to 6th dan by virtue of his shodans voting so. He had not been under an instructor since about 3rd dan. Other's using non-traditional titles awarded by organizations that care nothing about quality.

Again, I don't think this is about independents. It's about quality and rank being close to skill.

[quote=John Riggs][quote=Mary Eastland]You would not be practicing Aikido today if Uesieba thought as you did.
Mary

Again, I don't think this is about independents. It's about quality and rank being close to skill.

This statement says what I would have liked to have said. My purpose was not to offend anyone and I hope in that, I was a success. Yes, there are great independants that are worthy of the title "Sensei" I am sure, I just have not seen any. But wait, I have also seen those under a major organiation that needed room for growth but at least that particular sensei can be monitored and provided with the "corect" assistance when needed. This is another downfall to an independant, who is going to monitor them?

Who will guard the guards? Organizations might just produce as many frauds as they prevent.

I have the idea that when something great like aikido is discovered, the first generation students really get to be part of something incredible. The next generation (I mean that first generation's students) will do quite well but the watering down is almost a gaurantee. By the third generation, if they don't use their resourses to rediscover the original spark - the watering down is probably too great to recover from for the next generation.

The hope is that organizations create that resourse in working to bring people together and enforce high quality. When being a part of an organization (or being an independant dojo for that matter) keeps people from practicing together and/or promote based on loyalty or ability to teach beginners or anything other than aikido ability then the members seriously need to think about what they are supporting.

Rob

IMHO, organizations or federations (each with their own different code of conduct and ethics) do not make for quality teachers or instruction. Its the dedication and ethics of the individual that matters. I have met teachers with good technique, but switch organizations to gain rank and have ethical congruence (they aren't doing anything wrong according to the new organization). I have met teachers with less technique, but honor and respect the lineage of their teachers. I have only met a few that do both.

Fraudulent according to who? I wouldn't call it fraudulent if I didn't know better or I agreed with them. I would only call it fraudulent if I didn't agree with what they do and how they promote and run their business.

Its not "Aikido frauds". Its just people I personally consider frauds based on my own personal code of ethics.