Train in Aikido for Martial Arts

Originally posted by chadsieger Read my posts or dont.

I must say, upon re-reading your initial post.

May God have mercy on you once you get into an actual fight and "conquer" your opponent with your "ki" alone, without using any strikes.

Chad,

I don't think you get it. You just had someone agree with you about ki but you insult him by shouting?

If your house is built on a strong solid foundation and with strong materials the breezes that blow through will not knock it down. You would be able to maturely handle contrary points of view. If you truely understood that there are various understandings of ki, then you would know that we do believe in ki.

The way you have been responding indicate to the many very experienced people on this board that you don't know what you're talking about. (And don't give me that "I only want to talk to people who don't know about ki" line. What are you trying to do? Recruit for a cult? You only want to be a teacher and not a student?) Your words only exhibit base knowledge and not the depth of understanding.

If you do train tell us how long, with whom, what rank you are, and how old you are. Right now, I think you don't even practice aikido and only have read some books. You think you have some knowledge and somehow you think this gives you the right to teach others. By the maturity of your responses I think your about 13-15 years old.

Otherwise, stop teaching yourself, join a real life dojo and train.

We are all novices.
I know nothing.
The little that I do know, I will post.
Read, dont read.
Anne, I believe and understand (although that always grows) the priciples of which I speak. I know there are different opions/definitions/interpretations.
My voice was raised due to the constant need to defend myself due to other people's belief that I need to________(<--add improvement here).
Read my words, not between the lines, and give me some peace.

Thanks.

You call yourself a novice and think you're a master. Yet, you insist you're right. A claim a true master would never make.

Oh.

Originally posted by Misogi-no-Gyo I have several questions that I would like you to provide clear answers to. It may serve to help me, and other's on this board to better "hear" what it is that you are saying. 1. How long have you been training in Aikido/ 2. What other martial arts do you have in your background? 3. How old are you? 4. From whom did you directly learn "ki" or "kokyu"? 5. When you say "teach" what dojo, and on what day/nights do you do this teaching?

Shaun, I don't necessarily agree with this line of questioning. I understand the intent but part of what I like out here is not measuring someone by rank or other criteria. You either say smart, dumb or whatever things and stand on that merit. Age, rank and sensei status far too often get in the way of intelligence thought. It wsan't a 5th kyu who told me that washing belts removes the ki from them for instance.

To be honest, would you really give what he wrote more substance if it came out of some shihan's mouth? Granted it didn't but I know Chad's status, real or imagined, wouldn't change my opinion of what I read.

Originally posted by Erik Shaun, I don't necessarily agree with this line of questioning. ... Age, rank and sensei status far too often get in the way of intelligence thought.

I agree, stupiditity comes in all colours.

Someone's rank - or lack of rank - doesn't necessarily determine common sense, intelligence or even credibility.

Jim23

okay Dal breath in breath out breath in breath out. okay that was for me to get a clear mind...

this is not a command, nor am I going to order you chad or anyone else ( I would get kicked off the forums if I did). But, if you do tell us your rank, orginization, age and stuff like that we do have a better understanding of where your coming from and why. What makes your post intresting to read? why? thats a valid question. what do you have to teach us? ( and everyone has something to teach believe it or not. thats my opinion). We are in the most basic sence a virtual town, full of people who share there hopes, dreams, hardships, and advice to express their ideas and battles through their aikido life. thats whats so great about the fourms, we can see the minds of future teachers, current masters, and generations of people. and Respect is one of the main things we try to have here, we are trying to respect your point of view ( or at least I am.) but how can we when you wont respect our request and ideas? Im trying to Harmonize and hopefully I will. Ill give a litte bio of my self here.

Age: 17
Rank: 1st Kyu
Aikido Styal: Yoshinkan Aikido
Teacher(s): Payet sensei * 5th dan* Tatacho Sensei * 2nd dan*
Hobbies: play computer, read, Aikido, Trying to learn Japanesse,
put off homework.

see ist not so hard! I hope I didnt sound Preachy there if I did to anyone I apologize and would love feed back to not be so preachy!

Did a search on Allentown PA - only found one Aikido dojo. http://www.kinokawa.org/

Thank you for checking out my home town Mr. Rehse. Hopefully you linked to something interesting about our city.
Our school does not have a website. If you want information about it, feel free to ask.

Thanks.

Hey Dallas,

I am too lazy to climb the stairs to pull out the Aiki Expo stuff I brought back... did your sensei do a demo there, the name sounds familiar for some reason (have GOT to start taking gingko...)

Well I did - you refused to answer and curiosity got the best of me. Still the web site refers to a dojo leaning heavily towards Ki Society - any connection to yours.

Sure curiosity killed the cat - but the cat didn't have the internet.

Originally posted by chadsieger Thank you for checking out my home town Mr. Rehse. Hopefully you linked to something interesting about our city. Our school does not have a website. If you want information about it, feel free to ask.

Hi Colleen,

Originally posted by ca I am too lazy to climb the stairs to pull out the Aiki Expo stuff I brought back... did your sensei do a demo there, the name sounds familiar for some reason (have GOT to start taking gingko...)

I'm not Dallas, but I'll say that Payet sensei was there at the Aiki Expo and gave a demonstration. He also translated for Inoue sensei during some of his classes, megaphone in hand. I got to talk to him for a while about his translating Shioda sensei's "Aikido Jinsei" recently.

Despite my limited experience in Yoshinkan aikido, Payet sensei was quite open and invited me to train at his dojo in the future. Seemed like a very nice man.

-- Jun

Did a search on Allentown PA - only found one Aikido dojo. http://www.kinokawa.org/

Was wondering when someone would think of that.

Hi Chad,

what's your teacher's name?--Is it Minh Sensei as you list next to "dojo" in your profile? who were his teachers, what's his lineage back to the founder?

Maybe knowing where your roots are will help everyone understand where you're coming from.

Paul

Why on earth where you waiting for someone to check on me? Listen to my words and give me some peace.

Thanks.

I deeply appreciate this thread. It reminds me that principles like staying relaxed, grounded, and centered, to enter, blend, get off the line of attack, and never meet resistance with more resistance apply off the mat a well as on.

Thanks,
Until again,

Lynn
Nidan Tenshinkai Aikido
Lucaylucay Kali JKD

I met "resistance" against my character from people that I have never met, for posting my opions, without one written instance of offence to anybody. I can't belive the "free speech on the web" talk is necessary, especially on an Aikido website.
I dint say anybody was doing anything wrong.

Thanks.

I met "resistance" against my character from people that I have never met, for posting my opions, without one written instance of offence to anybody.

Resistance? Maybe. But I primarily saw people taken aback by your style of writing, curious of your background, of the foundation your writings are based on. Curiosity, turning to suspicion as you evaded the questions.

Try to find the harmony in this thread - there's much of it, just waiting to be seen.

Maybe you should have blended with their resistance.

It is indeed the same Payet Sensei! I talked to him abou the Aiki expo last weekend and he liked it very much! right now he is streesing the importance of moving from your center and brining life into our technque. I am going for Shodan in 3 months under him! He is a nice man, although can be very sever at the same time to dish out whatever disipline I need ( focus). I also know Geordan Reynolds senei who was also at the Expo! but enough names!

Hopefully this thread is working itself out!

Chadsinger wrote:

Firstly, I don't mean to offend anyone. My intention is not to preach or talk down to anyone. The purpose of my posts are simply to advise those just begining their martial arts journey, those who are dissatisfied with or just looking for more from their training, or those who simply are getting on in years and are looking for a way to make those old techniques still work now that the body is not so willing.

End quote:

I have to come down on the side of Greg Jennings and Misogi-no-Gyo. Real powerfull Atemi waza is a major part of Aikido. Many techniques simply do not work without it.

Reading your posts, Chad, I get the sense your not comfortable with what Aikido actually is. Are you searching for others of like mind? Or expressing what you think Aikido is? Few exsist on this forum that think like you, but they are out there.

To you chad and others who think like you.

It is well written that O-sensei stated many times that Aikido was budo. The last time I checked, one of the principles of Budo was truth.

I don't see much truth in your views on Aikido, considering your outlook on Atemi waza.

I've got to ask "Do you do Randori?"

If yes, then how without real Atemi waza?

Mr. Calugaru,

Yes, to answer your first question, randori is a valued component of our training.

With regard to your second question, "How without real Atemi waza?" I blend with the attackers energy (yokomenuchi, tsuki, grap, ect.), control my oponents center, and redirct the attack using the uke's engery into a throw or hold. Throws have their value, especially when its into the next assailant! Holds can be of value as well, once you have an uke's center, you can control him at will, and you've got yourself an nice shield and a weapon.
Randori is far for complex then what I've described here. But, if the uke is truly trying to attack (as all good uke's should do!), they will "give" you their energy, accept it, use it, and you will never have to atemi again.
However, off the mat, with my life in danger, I would not know what my true budo would look like. My actions would depend on the attacks. Strikes do have value as however, they get people who don't know what they're doing on the ground in a hurry.
Honestly, on some of the inside (which are therefore more dangerous), Aikido does in fact require a physical atemi. So, Ueshiba was correct when he mentioned atemis of the physical variety (every Aikido move does require a ki atemi to be done correctly, whether you believe in ki or not). However, if you use an atemi on every move, how will you ever learn circles, softness, extension, sensitivity, and all of the other qualities that are inherant in training with the techniques correctly?

Thanks for reading!

Originally posted by chadsieger However, if you use an atemi on every move, how will you ever learn circles, softness, extension, sensitivity, and all of the other qualities that are inherant in training with the techniques correctly?

Are you saying that those who teach "physical" atemi in aikido are doing incorrect aikido?

I dint say anybody was doing anything wrong.

Sure you did.

if you use an atemi on every move, how will you ever learn circles, softness, extension, sensitivity, and all of the other qualities that are inherant in training with the techniques correctly?

I'd agree with Andy on this one. You just told everyone who does atemi in their aikido that they were doing their techniques incorrectly.

Personally I agree with you. I don't like atemi all that much and rarely use it. That doesn't mean I won't use it I just tend to try to find another way first. That's my choice, others have chosen differently. It's not wrong, it's different. Different backgrounds, different histories, different experiences, different lives, different aikido.

One of the things we talk about in our style/dojo is "the correct usage of ki". My understanding of this at this point is to do what is needed when it is needed. If you are blending with the situation and doing what is called for, regardless of the action it is correct aikido. Even if the correct action at the time is to smash the opponents nose like a grape Remember I rarely if ever use atemi, but if that was the needed action I would do it without hesitation and wouldn't feel like I'd "failed" with my aikido. Of course the rub lies in learning to tell what is needed and when to apply it...I'll be working on that for quite a while

Just my thoughts,

Bronson

Here is a poll I dug up from the poll archive:

http://www.aikiweb.com/polls/results.html?poll_id=46 .

I think it's all dependent on how one trains.

If one trains in aikido to develop ki, harmony, etc., I think atemi is superflous and perhaps even counter-productive.

OTOH, if one is training in aikido as a budo, a martial way, I think awareness of, and therefore practice of, both giving and receiving atemi is *required*. The openings for atemi _are there_. They have to be acknowledged and dealt with.

But that's just my personal opinion.