How many practice Rokkyo?

For rokkyo, as I already said above, in Aikikai some people do waki-gatame, many more do ude-gatame, many do neither. For me, I prefer waki-gatame. From the discussions above, it seems that some people still do not understand what waki-gatame is. Case in point - Yes: ude-gatame works ONLY on a straight arm; waki-gatame works on a straight arm too but but it also works VERY well on a slightly bent arm, which is one of the reasons it is so good, and why Judo people (that know it) refer to it as side-arm lock, and not armpit armlock as its name might suggest - it works first against the elbow sideways hinge joint (no muscles to resist it) and then against the chest to lock (or try to) out the elbow -- rather than being a direct elbow lock like ude-gatame. Or, take nikyo, then forget the hand (and nikyo) and hold the wrist in both hands. Next, concentrate on the elbow joint (uke's hand still in a nikyo little-finger-up position). The elbow bends sideways - straighten it slightly and apply pressure down - against the elbow join but sideways (you trap it against your chest - standard elbow lock position (sideways), and hold it in your armpit).

Incidentally, ude-gatame can also be done using the armpit. That video tech I commented upon above was done using the armpit, but to me it looks like ude-gatame as the palm is up (you CANNOT do waki with the palm up - little finger must be up for waki. Also, with ude-gatame you have to take uke down to the ground if that is where you want him to be (like in the video mentioned earlier - somewhere above); with waki, it works kinda like nikyo, a little tweak and uke is slammed down while tori remains standing - it is 100 times better than ude-gatame, in my opinion. Of course, you could take uke down with waki but uke wouldn't like you anymore if you did.

If you don't know what waki is, you need to find out. I don't know of any online videos at present but if searching, look on a Tomiki database as they always do waki.

After thought - I'll try to get a short video clip sorted this week to show my own slant

Chris Hein wrote: Have you ever tried to do any Aikido technique off a real boxers jab or cross, I have, and it's not much more likely (I would say in fact not possible). -Chris Hein

I would say your correct. I think a jab or cross would give me a better chance of getting an off balance and a take down or throw as opposed to a hook or uppercut though. Since I never fought a real boxer, I can only speculate as to what I'd do.

Rupert, video is a good idea. Maybe you can put it in the aikikai section.

Tim and Chris: no i have never tried this on a real boxer; at less than full speed it would still be in question as to if it could be done or not, at full speed there is a large risk of injury to both uke and nage. honestly, i have never had a confrentation with a trained fighter outside of practice nor would i ever want to, they pose a much higher risk than the average person of both hurting me and of me hurting them, both of which are way down on my to do lists.

the way that i have practiced is almost a Hige-garami transition into rokkyo. to say that it is impossible is flawed because say uke is significantly smaller than you, or untrained, or wearing sandals and loses his footing while making full extention; difficult or unlikely is a much better way to put it. it can happen, the offset just needs to be more pronounced and the technique flows diffrently but ends up in the same spot. personally, i doubt that i would ever use this variation in a real situation, but i train everything i can think of for the "what if"s just incase it ever happens so i know i have some technique available and dont freeze.

my post was made more on the fact that one technique is being held above the other as more effective. is ikkyo better than rokkyo? nope. would ikkyo be more likely to come into play in a real situation, yep. is rokkyo better than ikkyo, nope. what matters isnt how the interception is made, or how the technique came about, or then entrance made: it is where you end up. if the arm is not straight, by some design or fluke it can be straightened.

i'd would love to see a video section to the site and would welcome any links to sites with some good videos; i'd love to see the variations of other schools. i've heard that there are around 50 aikido schools and 3 daito ryu schools.....that makes around 53 variations possible at a minimum.

and i humbly apoligize if i am making a pain in the forum out of myself. i am seeking knowledge and trying to share what little i know based on the knowledge and experience i have. feel free to correct me at any time, odds are you have been doing this for much longer than i have.

OK - I have a couple of clips of waki-gatame - 5 to 10MB in size. Not instructional as such - just general class-in-action stuff. Anwyay, if you want to see them, pm me your email address.

Thanks for the video Rupert. I'm not going to hold my breath waiting to see if Szczepan Janczuk will ever post a video clip.

He seemed the most admit that Rokkyo wouldn't work at all, and it would be nice to see what he is doing wrong, or should I say different.

Tim Jester wrote: Thanks for the video Rupert. I'm not going to hold my breath waiting to see if Szczepan Janczuk will ever post a video clip. He seemed the most admit that Rokkyo wouldn't work at all, and it would be nice to see what he is doing wrong, or should I say different.

Hi Tim,
I'm not all that good in aikido, in fact I do a whole bunch of errors. But I'm very fast, and even in slow motion you will not see too much.

For Rokkyo I'm doing only irimi and atemi. Do you think irimi is wrong or atemi is wrong? Or both?

I once saw Szczepan Janczuk, actually, no I didn't he was too fast.

-Chris Hein

Actually I did - shared a beer togeather.

I don't like having pictures or video taken of me either even though there is some stuff out there. I don't represent the best my style of Aikido has to offer - I leave that to others.

Still Szczepan - perhaps you could find a picture of someone else doing what you mean.

Szczepan, what you're saying has an element of truth (although I've found Rokkyo to be quite effective), some people may not attack with a straight arm. But are you saying that it SHOULDN'T be practiced because it doesn't work in some situations? Techniques don't work in 100% of scenarios, when another technique could present itself, that's why you practice combinations, but to dismiss a technique as useless is absurd. Just think that if the attacker ends up in the perfect rokkyo position, you'd be cursing if you missed the opportunity.

Szczepan Janczuk wrote: Hi Tim, I'm not all that good in aikido, in fact I do a whole bunch of errors. But I'm very fast, and even in slow motion you will not see too much.

Don't be shy. At your rank you should be quite good.

Szczepan Janczuk wrote: For Rokkyo I'm doing only irimi and atemi. Do you think irimi is wrong or atemi is wrong? Or both?

I don't think either is wrong as long as you can get the lock.

I know a a bunch of variations, and if I can get time, I'll make a movie clip so you can see what if what I'm doing is the same or different than you.

I'll be in Florida for a seminar in June. I don't know if you travel, but if you can make it, we can share notes.

Peter congrats on being in the 2006 aikiexpo!!

Tim Jester wrote: Peter congrats on being in the 2006 aikiexpo!!

Just to be clear that was a joke.

Ooops! It must have went over my head to!

I read it in the seminar post. Szczepan Janczuk is spreading rumors!!