Poll: If you could be uke for yourself, would you be able to throw yourself?

Originally posted by ca
Sarah, you are right, you did not say X percent, you were one of those who heard X percent, or you would not have thought there was something wrong with thinking blending is a part of Aikido, any more than atemi is a part.

Right, now I'm getting annoyed. I do not think any such thing and I did not say any such thing. Could you please back up your assertions with quotes from my posts.

Just how much a part is what gets some people in a frame of mind that calls those with a different frame 'kooky'. Or do you truely think that any degree of blending is out of the question in Aikido?

No. What have I written that makes you think I do?

Telling Craig he was out of line to use blend, then use Kimasubi (sic)? THAT certainly cleared things up. And by the way, what exactly is 'tie a knot in ki?' Is it in any way meant to be similar to tie together with ki, or to to join ki?

The point I was trying to make was that different groups use different words for the same thing, and the same words for different things. This leads to misunderstadings.
I have never told Craig that he was out of line.

Believing a Vulcan death grip can kill is not (probably) reasonable. But there are many styles of Aikido besides yours, and they are just as reasonable as yours. The fact that YOU don't enjoy them (if you have actually tried them) does not make them 'fluffy-bunny' or 'kooky'. They are simply not what appeals to you--which is probably good for all concerned.

You are reading stuff that simply isn't there.

Sarah

Originally posted by Sarah Frankly, I had similar concerns as Chris' - that your aiki was a bit fluffy-bunny for my taste. I am also terribly uncomfortable with the amount of mysticising that goes on in the vicinity of aikido. Sure sometimes aikido seems to be just well, magical, but it's ordinary, everyday, repeatable stuff that anyone who is inclined to can practice and succeed at. I don't feel the need to wrap it up in appeals to "become one with the universe" or "feel the flow of ki". In fact I sometimes think WRT martial arts, <Cue corny kung-fu movie accent>, "Ah so, "ki", ancient oriental sports psychology..." <offered with sincere apologies to anyone offended by the racist stereotype> Cheers Sarah

Originally posted by Sarah Now I dunno about Chris, but it's references to `deeper meanings' that actually sets my `kook alarm' off. Blend can start to mean any thing to them, as you seem to be aware as you put a bit of a disclaimer in one of earlier posts. Paticulary when someone in the dim distant past said something along the lines of `Aikido is blending', sounding as though he was sharing wisdom from on high and expecting the rest of us to chant 'amen'. While, I might add, implying that my initial comment was somehow shallower than his convoluted ramble. I now believe that the kook alarm registered a false positive in your case Cheers Sarah

he will be sooo relieved. But what about the rest of the 'kooks'? And is the 'amen' only required for when an instructor intones 'Aikido is atemi'?

Colleen

You did exactly what I was afraid you'd do - quote me out of context. I'm disappointed.


Frankly, I had similar concerns as Chris' - that your aiki was a bit fluffy-bunny for my taste.

Note past tense - had concerns, no longer have concerns.

Note also - for my taste - this is a personal opinion, and I am fully aware that I am not the final arbiter of what is or is not aikido. I never claimed to be.


I am also terribly uncomfortable with the amount of mysticising that goes on in the vicinity of aikido. Sure sometimes aikido seems to be just well, magical, but it's ordinary, everyday, repeatable stuff that anyone who is inclined to can practice and succeed at. I don't feel the need to wrap it up in appeals to "become one with the universe" or "feel the flow of ki".

In fact I sometimes think WRT martial arts,
<Cue corny kung-fu movie accent>,
"Ah so, "ki", ancient oriental sports psychology..."
<offered with sincere apologies to anyone offended by the racist stereotype>


These are my opinions and are clearly labled as such. This is the way I think about aikido. I am also not asking anyone to share them. Apparently they are not valid and I should therefore be silenced.

Where did I tell Craig that he was out of line?

Sarah.

[quote]Originally posted by Sarah
[b]
I've been thinking and I cannot recall ever hearing the word "blend" in my home dojo. Join up, join with, kimasubi - these are all used for a similar set of concepts. Language guides thinking....

I'd be interested in hearing from other posters - do your teachers use the word "blend" frequently?
How about "one point" and "extend ki". Are there any other words you see used here that aren't part of your usual dojo vocabulary?

[b]

this was as you agreed with Chris that 'blend' was a word to be avoided...great substitution with 'kimasubi'

I'm too tired to snip the last quote, where Craig offers to correct his vocabularly, since you and Chris have taken him so severely to task for using 'blend', no one has answered his question on what 'kimasubi' (sic) means, and you tell him HE is too concerned about pinpointing the definition, and reassure him HE is not as kooky as you had originally suspected. It is not too far back in the posts...

my goal is not to annoy you, although it seems I have achieved that. It is to get folks to avoid calling those who come from a different point of view 'kooky', 'fluffy-bunny', (and not yours) 'weak' 'weird' 'wrong'. It is all Aikido.

Originally posted by ca he will be sooo relieved. But what about the rest of the 'kooks'? And is the 'amen' only required for when an instructor intones 'Aikido is atemi'?

No I'm just as suspicious when that happens. I trust people when they say `I can't explain what aikido is - you have to try it and see.'

Sarah

Originally posted by ca Believing a Vulcan death grip can kill is not (probably) reasonable.

Heretic !

I'm not saying you cannot have opinions, nor that you must be silenced. I am not even saying you can't use mean-spirited words when describing others...but I am saying that I wish you would avoid them. How is this done?

For instance : 'at my dojo, we do not often/ever use terms like 'extend ki' or 'blend' etc... we prefer to emphasize breakdown angles/atemi/etc...' at this point, if you are interested, you can add 'could you tell me more about your views of ki/musubi/etc'. If you are absolutely certain you have nothing to gain from hearing a different view, you can be silent vs. adding words like 'kooky'. If still wanting to emphasize your own style, add why breakdown angles/atemi/etc work so effectively for you (avoiding 'this is the only right way' or 'all other ways are ineffective'---I can 100% guarentee you they are not).

Try to point out the positive in what you say, and try not to use any label that would offend you if it were put in front of your style or yourself (if you like 'fluffy bunny and kooky', consider getting help). Your posts could have stood on their own without EVER using those two words, or the reference to Eastern philosophy with Kung Fu music background.

[quote]Originally posted by ca
[b][quote]Originally posted by Sarah
[b]
I've been thinking and I cannot recall ever hearing the word "blend" in my home dojo. Join up, join with, kimasubi - these are all used for a similar set of concepts. Language guides thinking....

I'd be interested in hearing from other posters - do your teachers use the word "blend" frequently?
How about "one point" and "extend ki". Are there any other words you see used here that aren't part of your usual dojo vocabulary?


this was as you agreed with Chris that 'blend' was a word to be avoided...great substitution with 'kimasubi'


I didn't suggest that it be subistituted. I just said that we don't use it. We use these other words which other people don't necessarily understand. Neither is better or worse. Just different. Which I believe is also your point. We don't use the terms `one point' or `extend ki' either. Which means that I may not have the same picture in my mind when other people do use them.


I'm too tired to snip the last quote, where Craig offers to correct his vocabularly, since you and Chris have taken him so severely to task for using 'blend', no one has answered his question on what 'kimasubi' (sic) means, and you tell him HE is too concerned about pinpointing the definition, and reassure him HE is not as kooky as you had originally suspected. It is not too far back in the posts...


No, I am saying that words are tricky little monsters - and that often definitions cannot be pinpointed. Craig offered to change, and I tried to explain why I thought that was unnecessary and possibly even counterproductive.


my goal is not to annoy you, although it seems I have achieved that. It is to get folks to avoid calling those who come from a different point of view 'kooky', 'fluffy-bunny', (and not yours) 'weak' 'weird' 'wrong'. It is all Aikido.

Point taken. I was undecided as to wether to mention that bit at all. I decided to in the interests of honesty, I mean that is really what I was thinking.
But if that is what upset you so much, why didn't you say so first off instead of attacking on all of those other, unrelated fronts.

Sarah

Originally posted by shihonage Heretic !

Hey, I SAID probably

Actually, there are few things I am absolutely sure of, and that is not one of them

I have a really funny video clip involving a kick to the head that would have been perfect after Erik's bit on another thread about the subject, but couldn't attach it... you seem to do that a lot, how is it done?

Originally posted by ca I have a really funny video clip involving a kick to the head that would have been perfect after Erik's bit on another thread about the subject, but couldn't attach it... you seem to do that a lot, how is it done?

For some reason I no longer see that option.
But even when it existed, I think it was only limited to attaching IMAGES (not videoclips) off your hard drive.

Thanks! It took me over a year to learn how to use the italics and smilies, and now that we've got the new faces, I can no longer use the italics again... so I REALLY felt old when I couldn't put that video clip in, either. OTOH, someday when a small thermonuclear blast has destroyed all our computers, I will know how to use a slide rule and will take over the world....

Originally posted by ca Someday when a small thermonuclear blast has destroyed all our computers, I will know how to use a slide rule and will take over the world....

Yeah kids nowadays... they can't multiply 40 by 4 without using a calculator or a cash register.

Originally posted by ca I have a really funny video clip involving a kick to the head that would have been perfect after Erik's bit on another thread about the subject, but couldn't attach it... you seem to do that a lot, how is it done?

If you really wanted to you could just post a link to wherever the file is. I can only imagine what it might be.

Holy cow, there are so many posts, I wouldn't know where to start replying to individual items. So, just a few things that stuck in my mind after reading...

I don't feel as if *anyone* attacked me, or was aggresive in this forum. If I wasn't interested in hearing the veiws of others, (however they are formed or phrased,) I wouldn't be here.

On language and vocabulary: I mentioned this somewhere upthread too, the trained-only-in-one-dojo syndrome gives me a biased vocabulary. (How could it not?) If I say "blend" and I get 23 replies all with questions and ideas and arguments, then I know I've found a portion of my vocabulary, or more importantly, an area of my understanding of Aiki that I need to investigate more thoroughly.

Sometimes I'm accused (in my dojo) of being fluffy-bunny. I spent several years "un-learning" being a brute-force bear, now it's time to "train up" atemi, extension, and power. When I talk about aikido, I sound like my current level of training and understand -- ie, fluffy-bunny at times.

Vulcan death grip: (told you I was jumping around.) I doubt on the hand; But there is a little nerve plexus on your neck (near where you would do a choke with your shin on a pinned apponent) that is a feedback mechanism to your heart -- a blood pressure sort of regulator so your heart gets feedback about blood pressure to the head. Crush that little nexus and ones heart can stop. (Physiology, not mystism -- something to keep in mind when pinning uke in practice.) So, I presume there are other such stupidly-vulnerable, key spots on the body.

Originally posted by cconstantine Vulcan death grip: (told you I was jumping around.) I doubt on the hand; But there is a little nerve plexus on your neck (near where you would do a choke with your shin on a pinned apponent) that is a feedback mechanism to your heart -- a blood pressure sort of regulator so your heart gets feedback about blood pressure to the head. Crush that little nexus and ones heart can stop. (Physiology, not mystism -- something to keep in mind when pinning uke in practice.) So, I presume there are other such stupidly-vulnerable, key spots on the body.

Heard the following on the Dean Edell although I almost hate to post it.

Apparently it is possible to strike the chest at just the right time so that the heart will stop beating. Happens, very rarely, to fighters. Apparently there is a nerve or something there can be triggered if hit at the right time. Of course, it has nothing to do with it being the evening, solar tropical depressions or the time zone one resides in but it can apparently be done if you time the pulse 'exactly' right. It's something akin to hitting the lottery in a not good way and it's basic physiology. I've been trying to find a transcript on the show. If I do, I'll post it.

Well, it's definitely easier for me to say "blend" than it is for me to say everything else I've said all week here. But *clearly* I'm the odd ball attaching these meanings to this particular word.

If (heaven forbid) we were on a karate forum, I would not object to your use of the word. Any common definition would probably be close enough to further discussion.

On this aikido forum, everyone has their own subtle understanding of the word, built upon their own limited experience and understanding. "Blend" does not stimulate discussion here; it stifles discussion. We all take turns arguing with ourselves, pretending it is a genuine exchange.

Also, aside from your clearly taking issue with my use of the specific word *blend*. Do you have issues with the concepts and ideas that I mean when I say blend?

Yes. Uke should not practice aikido when doing so will hinder their partner's progress. IOW, uke should never practice aikido.

...I don't think literal filtering would work...

Necessity is the mother of invention, they say.

...but a section on the site (maybe there already is one? Jun?) where the nuances of those key terms is at least nailed down.
I might discover their "definitions" are different from those to which I'm accustomed, but then I could correct my vocabulary (before barging into the forums) and use the common/correct vocabulary.

Without a shared set of reference points, "correct vocabulary" is a fantasy. Don't waste your energy.

I'm going to get myself some perfectly blended Jamba Juice.

Get it, BLENDED ?

I am the KING OF HILARITY !

I could never throw myself because I am too much in tune with all of my openings. I'd spend all my time reversing myself over and over until I simply became exhausted and fell, but which one of me would fall first? And how long could this go on? About 2 minutes. Neither one of me has any stamina.

Yes.

Mary Eastland wrote: Yes.

Wow you really took time to think about that one. Eleven years later you came up with an answer.

Interesting topic to think on though. I shall go and meditate on it and get back to you in 2024.

LOL..I thought it was an interesting idea. I will be waiting with baited breath to see what you think.

Of course I can throw myself. I am, after all, my own worst enemy. I am my own nemesis.

Parthenogenesis. Everybody's happy when the dead come home.

Couldn't help it.