Would You Train Under A "No Rank" Sensei?

in the old days in Asia, when you setup martial art shop, you have folks come and ask to "teach them", i.e. a polite way of asking for a fight. those darn Asians were pretty polite up until they kicked your ass. methink, Ueshiba had experienced this sort of things many times.
personally, those who can kick my ass, i'd learn from them; those who can't, i'd learn from them too.
on the other hand, whichever other hand, those who can kick my nuts, that would just be war!

There's a difference between No Rank and Independent. I have no problem with Independent. But there are a lot pf folks out there who claim rank that is bogus... wouldn't train with them, for a variety of reasons.

I agree.

I have been trained and ranked by a man who is independent. He holds a rank which may or may not be recognised by large aikido organisations. Yet I still train with him. Why?

He has personal integrity, is sincere and I can leave, when I want, if I choose. Money is not a big driver for this guy either. Those characterisitics tell me a lot more about this person than his belt colour.

I do know the lineage of this club and I agree with those that say aikido traditions do hold some importance. I have also trained at other clubs that are affilitated with other groups. This is important for a bigger view of things.

It's a tough one. As others have said, in a martial art that does not include competition, assessing quality of an instructor is tricky.

Be cautious newbies.

If i may,
I thought a student had to beg the teacher to be his student. At least that was so in the olden days. The student would have to prove his/her worth to the teacher before being accepted. That humblness and humility opened up the student to the learning even if it is very little from the teacher. One can always learn something from everyone, even a bad teacher. If one has the attitude that i am only going to join him if he meets my expectations on the technique that he does, one would be surprised how untrained eyes cannot fathom all the lil details that go into making one. For a master, every movement is measured and as a beginner, we do not even know what to look for. Leastways i didnt .

And if one does happen to end up in a place with no lineage, heck, perhaps that is telling you that you about to make a new one and even if you cudnt, one at least tried

Yes, I think I would. I am a "no rank" Kendo sensee. And when there was an examination in Guatemala form the CLAK (latin american Kendo confederation) led by Kogima Kyoshi from Brazil, my two students who assisted get their Ikkyu, that proved them I teached the true kendo. Now my students has kendo Kyu and I am still "no rank", but i remain the Dojo leader.
So my actual Aikido sensee has "no rank" too, but I feel that he transmit the spirit needed in Budo.
In Karate I have a Sandan recognized by world karate federation.

Although one can learn from a bad instructor, even if it is what not to do, as one becomes more experienced with years of training good and bad kihon become apparent. My wife just being around it for so many years can pick out bad Aikido.

Nafis Zahir wrote: Sensei, I would really like to hear that story!

Maybe you also want to check on Trovador Ramos the founder of TRACMA.

I love it when people say a "no rank" sensei. I had that comment made to me once from a group of people watching me teach. I simply stopped the class and sat the class down. Then I walked on over to the big mouth and invited the big mouth to get on the mat and do his best. They left and never returned. If you have doubt about a certain person and his rank, try him out. You can tell. Then you make your decision.

I can understand why some people choose to use rank. The various Aikido associations need some way to keep track of which people have been where for how long, and ranks are a convenient tradition everyone is familiar with.

That said, even between just three different schools, I have seen wildly different definitions of what the belts meant, the skill levels involved, and whether or not they use the Japanese ranks or colored belts.

I've always felt you can get a pretty good feel for what kind of an aikidoka someone is from taking a few falls with them. More to the point, you don't just pick up how long they've been doing this, but you pick up some of what kind of a person they are and what kind of attitude they approach the mat and their partner with. Those things are just as important as someone's rank.

--- Craig

Phil Van Treese wrote: I love it when people say a "no rank" sensei. I had that comment made to me once from a group of people watching me teach. I simply stopped the class and sat the class down. Then I walked on over to the big mouth and invited the big mouth to get on the mat and do his best. They left and never returned. If you have doubt about a certain person and his rank, try him out. You can tell. Then you make your decision.

I loved that response! The guy was probably expecting you to walk over and ask the he grab your wrist. It makes me smile every time that the Aikido stereotype is broken. Kudos to you!