Fight does not work at all in Aikido.

"The true science of martial arts means practicing them in such a way that they will be useful at any time, and to teach them in such a way that they will be useful in all things."
Miyamoto Musashi

Shane Bournival wrote: "The true science of martial arts means practicing them in such a way that they will be useful at any time, and to teach them in such a way that they will be useful in all things." Miyamoto Musashi

This is so true. I was watching some dvd recently on "sexual mastery" (sounds worse than it really is) and they referenced being centered, like in Aikido. Nothing lude or elicit intended in that, but the whole point was about maintaining a balance of male and feminine energy within oneself. You know, all the stuff that Aikido teaches in every other aspect of one's life.

It's not like they said Wing Chun, or Karate or some such. They could've said anything, but yet Aikido was specifically mentioned. The reason is obviously because the fundamental principle of this art is so far reaching that it can be applied anywhere, to any subject. Having a centered self.

Mark Murray wrote: Dunno. I view Aikido from the founder, Morihei Ueshiba. And *his* aikido was tested by many other martial artists. *His* aikido worked against anyone willing to test themselves against him. *His* aikido held up against all kinds of active resistance. He was interested in whether or not his deshi *won* their fights, even when he yelled at them not to fight. Got not problems with people wanting to be all "flowing" and connecting and such. Just don't call it Ueshiba's Aikido because it isn't.

Excellent.
Thank you for this, Mark.

Thought I would share an article I got today, since it has some relevance to this (the parts about Gozo Shioda).

http://blog.aikidojournal.com/2012/0...y-david-lynch/

Some might say he is not practising O Sensei's Aikido (or rather, how it was at the very end, where as far as I understand it was much less strict and "violent", and much more "flowey"), but nonetheless, one can certainly not say that his Aikido didn't have a martial direction and value to it.

Hi All,

I read this line in a post below:

I view Aikido from the founder, Morihei Ueshiba. And *his* aikido was tested by many other martial artists.

First off, I'm not an aikido guy, so my following questions and comments are not meant to disparage Aikido in any way, but rather for my own edification.

I was wondering who actually tested Ueshiba? "Who" meaning any martial artists of high profile? I recently read the book about Yukiyoshi Sagawa and there is a part in there where he stated that when Ueshiba was traveling in the early days and giving his instructions only his immediate students who came with him took ukemi from him, whereas Sagawa states Takeda would let anyone from the class grab him.

Is he implying that Ueshiba didn't let just anyone grab him? One could read this that Ueshiba didn't let himself be really tested - that is if what Sagawa states is true.

thanks,
Ryan

Ryan Schoelerman wrote: Hi All, I read this line in a post below: First off, I'm not an aikido guy, so my following questions and comments are not meant to disparage Aikido in any way, but rather for my own edification. I was wondering who actually tested Ueshiba? "Who" meaning any martial artists of high profile? I recently read the book about Yukiyoshi Sagawa and there is a part in there where he stated that when Ueshiba was traveling in the early days and giving his instructions only his immediate students who came with him took ukemi from him, whereas Sagawa states Takeda would let anyone from the class grab him. Is he implying that Ueshiba didn't let just anyone grab him? One could read this that Ueshiba didn't let himself be really tested - that is if what Sagawa states is true. thanks, Ryan

Well, there's Tenryu, of course:

I dissolved the Kansai Sumo Association in 1937 and in January of 1938 I went to Manchuria as a physical education instructor. In the spring of 1939 in an effort to spread Japanese martial arts in Manchuria too, we invited Japanese teachers to the country and arranged to have high local officials observe their demonstrations. The arts demonstrated were Kendo, Judo, Kyudo and Aikido. Since the dojo had not yet been completed, we asked the participants to give demonstrations in the dojo of the Chuo Bank. Ueshiba Sensei brought Mr. (Noriaki) Inoue with him. After they showed some techniques, Ueshiba Sensei said: “You are probably thinking that we cannot possibly do these techniques without some sort of collusion between us. Since you are all martial arts practitioners, if there is a man among you, come and test this old man.” However, no one stepped forward. At 35 I was the youngest among them. I had recently arrived in Manchuria and several government officials were observing the demonstration. I thought that I should test my own ability and said, “Yes, I will try”. Ueshiba Sensei replied: “You are Mr. Tenryu, aren’t you? You too are probably imagining that an old man like me won’t be able to throw you very well. However, budo is much more than what you think it is. He offered his left hand saying it was weaker than his right and continued: “You must be quite strong physically. I am not putting strength into my arm so you can do anything you want with it. Try!” I thought that this old man was speaking nonsense and slapped his hand down as I grabbed it. But the moment I touched him I was startled. I felt as if I had taken hold of an iron bar. Of course, I knew very well from my experience in Sumo that it would be useless to struggle against him. I immediately knew I had been defeated. However, I couldn’t just leave things like that and attempted to twist his arm up and out. He didn’t move an inch. I tried again with both hands using all my might. But he used my strength against me and I fell down.

Best,

Chris

excellent! thanks Chris, I've never read that before.

Best,
Ryan

Ryan Schoelerman wrote: excellent! thanks Chris, I've never read that before. Best, Ryan

I don't have a link right now, but you can find it referenced several places:
Shioda Gozo also went up against Ueshiba, his first day of seeing him. As he recalled, he was seeing a demonstration (in Ueshibas dojo I believe), and Ueshiba seemed to notice his disbelief in what was going on. Shioda, then a Judoka, was asked if he wanted to attack (with any attack he preferred). Shioda, thinking that Ueshiba would never expect it from a Judoka, attacked with a kick. He then recalls clashing his head against the wall at the other end of the mat, and signed up the next day to learn Aikido.

Might be some stuff here:

http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15035

good stuff!

thanks again,
Ryan