Why do some people hate Aikido?

Craig Hocker wrote: I think a more productive thread really might be "Why do people love aikido ?"

I agree the trappings of a "...hate..." versus "...love..." topic tend to be less pleasant and more antagonistic. And, "hate" is a rather strong term...so maybe "dislike" would be better too, but I don't think it's unproductive simply to ask why someone might not like something. I know I've certainly taken benefit from people speaking critically (ie-negatively) of Aikido...maybe even more so than from those who express what they like about it...being that I am pretty much already aligned with their thinking (at this point in my training at least).

Michael Fooks wrote: this is probably a good example of why some people hate aikido.

aikido is not for fighting ,aikido is understand the world,nature,if the are seeking force and hurt ,then they are lost ,I´m not try to explain that this is better than other ,if they hate aikido ask then what they hate of aikido , the filisofi, spiritual ,tai sabaki,
MICHAEL I DONT THINK THAT AIKIDO IS THE BEST OF ALL M A , IS THE PERSON THE ONE WHO MAKES THE ART SO SPECIAL , FOR ME ALL ARE THE SAME,
BUT SOMEONE WHO HATE AIKIDO IS VS NATURE, AND UNIVERSE, AIKIDO .
O-SENSEI LOVE THE PACE THAT´S WHY HE DEVELOPED THIS ART. BUT IF YOU EXPLAIM TO THEN AND THEY DONT UNDERSTAND , DO SOMETHING TRY AGAIN ,,, BUT IN MY OPINION THE WORLD IS TOO LOST , TOO FULL OF HATE ,PEOPLE HATE AND DESTROY WHAT THE DONT UNDRESTAND
MICHAEL FOOKS IF YOU ARE NOT OK WITH ME , DONT WORRY I´LL EXPLAIM YOU AGAIN , THAT IS FOR YOU TOO LEE
MATA AIMASU DFG

Paul Boswell wrote: Practice of Aikido seems to breed certain eccentricities of character (see above).

BOSWELL TELL ME SOMETHING WHAT DO YOU THINK OF AIKIDO , BUY THE WAY FOR ME AIKIDO IS LIKE ( THE TAO) IS IN EVERY PLACE, RIVERS ,PLANTS, RAIN, WIND,EARTH.
WHAT DO YOU THINK .

What I found 'turned me off' about Aikido for a while before I started studying it was my best friend touting its superiority

Common sense seems to suggest that constant touting of ones superiority is a mask for some kind of unconscious inferiority or inadequacy. Moreover, as harmless as it may seem, storys about Aikidos superiority are quite poisonous to the martial arts as a whole. The average Aikidoka has 1001 ways of subtly, or obviously undermining other martial practitioners with unusual anecdotes, philosophical postulations etc. Unfortunately and ironically, Aikido is not a superior martial art either in terms of self defence or philosophically. If a person believes it is the best they have not seen enough martial arts.

in response to the "does it mattter" and "let's just focus on why people like us" comments.

It's pretty simple in my mind. Would you rathere train with 3 training partners or 30? Would you rather see Aikido grow and flourish, or wither and die out?

It's tempting to say "i enjoy it, who cares what anyone else thinks" and that's a valid response. But it may also be valid to take a long term view and ask how can we ensure the art continues to grow (and for those that like to talk about "O'sensei's dream" this should be particularly important).
To accomplish that you've got to do both sides of the coin - figure out what is good and attractive about it, so you can accentuate that, and figure out what puts people off so that, so long as it doesn't undermine the arts foundation, you can start to weed it out.

Michael Fooks wrote: .... Would you rather see Aikido grow and flourish, or wither and die out? ....

The Best Aikido books state that the best estimate is that there are 1.5 million pepole practicing AIkido world wide. I've been to three seminars in the past month, all of which drew a pretty good crowd if the mat's "population density" is anything to go by. The Doshu is publishing books and teaching seminars all over the place.

I don't think Aikido is going to "whither and die" anytime soon.

But be that as it may ....

....you've got to do both sides of the coin - figure out what is good and attractive about it, so you can accentuate that, and figure out what puts people off so that, so long as it doesn't undermine the arts foundation, you can start to weed it out.

Unless it's the "art's foundation" that puts off some of the Internet poster referred to in the first post, then nothing you do will satisfy them. But I doubt internet postings make for reliable scientific samplings anyway.

Lynn Seiser wrote: Just listen to a lot of Aikido people talk about the bashing and grappling arts, a total lack of acceptance.

Meh. I had a lengthy argument today with another aikidoka (rather better and more experienced than me) who was claiming that kicking is an inherently bad idea because it involves voluntarily weakening your own balance. (And moreover that shiai randori + goshin no kata is adequate preperation for any sort of fight - for instance, defending yourself against a kickboxer is straightforward because dealing with straight kicks is just like reacting to tanto strikes and and all you have to do against non-straight kicks is irimi...)

Based on no experience of any martial art except aikido, obviously...

Btw, I think a lot of people who appear to 'hate' aikido actually just take the piss out of aikido, which is a rather different thing. I take the piss out of people who went to Oxford, applied mathematicians, flautists and virtually every area of Great Britain except the one where I grew up and the ones where I've recently lived. But I wouldn't say that I'm anywhere near actually hating any of these, or even disparaging them in a particularly genuine way - it's just easy and fun...

I dont think aikido is « whither and die» no my friend that's not gonna happen for a long time belive me, not in your dreams,
«how can we ensure the art continues to grow» see,,,, how many person practice aikido in the world,that's the question for you
DFG

Paul Boswell wrote: Common sense seems to suggest that constant touting of ones superiority is a mask for some kind of unconscious inferiority or inadequacy. Moreover, as harmless as it may seem, storys about Aikidos superiority are quite poisonous to the martial arts as a whole. The average Aikidoka has 1001 ways of subtly, or obviously undermining other martial practitioners with unusual anecdotes, philosophical postulations etc. Unfortunately and ironically, Aikido is not a superior martial art either in terms of self defence or philosophically. If a person believes it is the best they have not seen enough martial arts.

tell me my friend do you practice aikido or you just see the class out side of the tatami , I'm ok wiht you that aikido is not only MA in the world but i'll will never say «that aikido is not a superior either in terms of self defense or philosophically» ,
if you practice aikido,,,,, man ,,,, do something else but aikido maybe bjj,karate,SUMO,boxing,thai, jajajajajajajajajaj . BYE

are you saying douglas that anyone that practices Aikido should automatically have the opiniion that is is superior to all other martial arts?

David Sim wrote: Meh. I had a lengthy argument today with another aikidoka (rather better and more experienced than me) who was claiming that kicking is an inherently bad idea because it involves voluntarily weakening your own balance .....

Well, he's right on that technical point, because when you're throwing a kick puts that your balance on one leg. Higher kicks (chest or higher) are even worse because they also expose your groin. That's why many systems advocate low kicks. High kicks seem to be good for developing flexibility, coordination, body mechanics, balance, and just having something that looks cool at parties, but for actual combat, low is better. So he has a valid argument, but I don' think that makes kicks "inherently bad," just some points one would have to be aware of about them.

When it comes to thhe way different teachers think of Aikido, I've heard this phrase from my seniors: "It's not wrong; it's just different." The same can be said of all arts and techniques: They're not wrong, just different. Kicking has its advantages and disadvantages. Aikido, for the most part, chooses not to train in them, but neither do western boxers. Want to tell a boxer he's a pushover because he doesn't kick? I didn't think so. So Aikido doesn't spent a lot of time -- if any -- on kicks. Big Fat Harry Deal.

Dear friend fooks, I said that aikido is just another M A in this world but we can't say« that aikido is not a superior art »for me all the MA in this world are superior ,I'll never gonna say that X MA is better than this one, is just not right, Is the person the one who make it real good, for example , see UFC Gracie is great fighter in BJJ ,I'm talking about the first UFC fight 1992,93,94 for example .
of course this is only sport, but my point is that HE USE BJJ SO WELL THAT NOT ONE WAS MATCH FOR HIM , many fighter came wiht the same style but the loose that's my point , THE Ma just a tool but the way you use it is what count
DFG

me all the MA in this world are superior

I think you need to re look at the definition of "superior".

And for the record, in the early UFCs there were not other BJJers coming in and losing.

Michael Gallagher wrote: Aikido, for the most part, chooses not to train in them, but neither do western boxers. Want to tell a boxer he's a pushover because he doesn't kick? I didn't think so. So Aikido doesn't spent a lot of time -- if any -- on kicks. Big Fat Harry Deal.

Important difference. Boxers are training specifically to deal with other boxers playing the game of boxing. So of course they ain't gonna train to deal with kicks. Whereas Aikido is supposed to prepare you for more "no rules" type altercations, is it not? Isn't that one of the big arguments offered up for not having a sporting application?

Michael Fooks wrote: Whereas Aikido is supposed to prepare you for more "no rules" type altercations

It isn't neccessarily supposed to prepare you for all types of 'real world' altercations - it doesn't do much (from a martial point of view) against a neutron bomb or (on a slightly more realistic level) someone who has a gun and much of a clue how to use it. But the point is that we don't try to explain this omission by saying that guns are useless because the bang would attract too much attention and anyway the gun might misfire and injure the holder...

Michael Gallagher wrote: Well, he's right on that technical point, because when you're throwing a kick puts that your balance on one leg. Higher kicks (chest or higher) are even worse because they also expose your groin. That's why many systems advocate low kicks. High kicks seem to be good for developing flexibility, coordination, body mechanics, balance, and just having something that looks cool at parties, but for actual combat, low is better. So he has a valid argument, but I don' think that makes kicks "inherently bad," just some points one would have to be aware of about them.

Oh, I'd agree that kicking temporarily weakens your balance - or rather it weakens your ability to deal with attempts to disrupt you balance or to counterattack you in other ways. There are cons to going for a kick. But relatively few kicking arts believe in walking up to the opponent and going straight out for a spinning kick to the head, but rather they use (from what I've seen and experienced) various methods - speed, good balance, timing, setting up a kick with other attacks and so on - to minimize these cons until they're outweighed by the 'pro' ie the possibility of your foot or shin colliding rapidly with a more delicate part of the opponent.

My point was that concluding that kicking is basically martially useless based on having thought about it a bit and decided that the disruption to your balance makes it a bad idea is the sort of thing that tends not to endear (some) aikidoka, or anyone else for that matter, to the martial arts community as a whole...

good posts David

if you practice aikido,,,,, man ,,,, do something else but aikido maybe bjj,karate,SUMO,boxing,thai, jajajajajajajajajaj

I do not pretend to be an expert, but there are many more styles out there than listed above, although those are all good styles. I have practiced Aikido and have friends who stuck with it. I have found greater levels of humility, open-mindedness and MUCH greater levels of skill outside of Aikido.

Paul Boswell wrote: If a person believes it is the best they have not seen enough martial arts.

Very true of all martial arts.

QUOTE=Paul Boswell]I do not pretend to be an expert, but there are many more styles out there than listed above, although those are all good styles. I have practiced Aikido and have friends who stuck with it. I have found greater levels of humility, open-mindedness and MUCH greater levels of skill outside of Aikido.[/quote]
jajajajajaja , oh man what are you doing in this site, but I tell you my friend and I´m total ok whit you that I also have found greater leves of skill such as karate [ Oyama sensei ,funakoshi,Ikeda, real good, as others M A.
But I wonder why people do hate Aikido, I mean that´s a funny question I never saw same thing like that , you see I love all MA maybe you don beliveme jajajajajajajajaj but is true I also defend Aikido at all cost,maybe they see Aikido too soft too weak anyway peace my friend, I really enjoy this conversation.
wuaho that´s the way I like, Everybody defend his position , you know who win more wiht all this,.. [MA] jajajajaj
bye DFG

Hi Douglas Fajajajardo, I've seen this jajaja thing in a couple of Spanish developer mailing lists, but you're making this into a deadly technique. Jajajajaja!!!!

[quote=Michael Fooks]I think you need to re look at the definition of "superior".

My big friend fooks,
SUPERIOR MEANS SUPERIOR, I have to spell it man,
The man or women are the only who makes mistakes,got that my friend, by the way yes there were BJJ´s UFC, only sport now , too bad

Gernot Hassenpflug wrote: Hi Douglas Fajajajardo, I've seen this jajaja thing in a couple of Spanish developer mailing lists, but you're making this into a deadly technique. Jajajajaja!!!!

jajajajajaja ANATABA NIHONJIN DESSUKA,

LIVE IS TOO SHORT TOMADACHI YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT LIFE LIKE DEAD WHEN I FACE ANY PROBLEM I´M CALM ALWAYS SMILING, LIFE IS TOO BEATIFUL I DON´T WASTE MY TIME GETTING ANGRY MATA AIMASU

I have no idea what is going on

Thisi s the funniest version of "threadkill" I have ever seen on this site. I love it! Pure love, that's on topic right?