No more Mr. Nice Guy.

Jonathan Hay wrote: "When in Winnipeg, do as the Winnipegers do." Ah...no. Doesn't have the same classic ring to it. "Winnipegers" just sounds kinda' silly.

Yeah, John...there's two "g" in Winnipegger... There's the whole problem...
Walter - former Winnipegger

Walter Martindale wrote: Yeah, John...there's two "g" in Winnipegger... There's the whole problem... Walter - former Winnipegger

Here a peg, there a peg, everywhere a peg, peg...ole macdonald had a dojo eeyi, eeyi, ohhhhh.

From a family of 'Kokyu Hosers ', jen

George S. Ledyard wrote: I did some training years ago for some serious juvenile delinquents. These kids were on their last chance before big time adult jail. One of the things I said to them was that Aikido is about freedom. How can you live non-reactively, control your own life... Some of these kids went through life totally reactively. Someone "disses" them and they feel that they have to shoot them in response. I pointed out to them that living this way, you aren't free; you are letting everyone else determine your actions.

I was one of these guys....not guided by GS.L but none the less been through a big mill that none of you could begin to understand..but then again you have your own mill. Anyhow GS.L made another point about harmony in the work place...this is funny for me and fantasic at the same time! I had been working solid in a place for a while and being pushed around by a senior in the work place....I was given a chance by the top dog to completely turn the tables on this guy and completely rob him of a job and a life..instead my choice was harmony and it is paying off big time...I left and made better things happen .
A thought on this topic (even if the guy has seniority, if your choice is harmony you will always win...be it the form of verbal, spiritual...pin, throw, aikido OYO HENKA ...etc many forms) make it happen through harmony the philosiphy works well...nice thread and I would love to do some work with some kids like GS.L has done...I was one of them.

I was one of those kids, too. This is what I did.
http://www.santacruz.k12.ca.us/alt_e...dspirit07.html

George S. Ledyard wrote: What is it that we are training for? I look at these things as test of my own ability to stay calm and non-reactive. That fact that the other guy is a butt head is simply not my problem. What's the upset here? This guy has some ego issues going on and he's running them on you... It's not your problem until you buy into them. Now you have ego issues going on. You've allowed someone to push your buttons and get you pissed off. How will you approach the same issues in your life? If your partner in your relationship has a bad day and pushes some of your buttons, will you push back? Most folks do of course so it's no big failure... but then most folks end up divorced as well.

We are not talking about a beginner her getting mad at a stupid fellow aikidoka att his first seminar. We are talking about this guy

Jonathan Hay wrote: This sort of thing isn't unique to my experience as an aikidoka. I've had other higher-ranked aikidoka over the years block my technique to show me their way is "better" and, until now, I've not challenged them. But, I think I'm done with this nonsense. I've been doing aikido for almost twenty years and, while I'm far from mastery of this art, I'm not completely without skill either. Certainly, I've enough skill to perceive when a person's input on my technique is genuinely useful and when it is not. I can tell now when I'm dealing with a stylistic difference rather than a legitimate mechanical/martial concern. And I can see when ego is motivating someone to "correct" my technique rather than a sincere interest in seeing me improve as an aikdoka. No more Mr. Nice Guy. If another aikidoka (senior or otherwise) tries to challenge my technique he/she better be up to the same challenge from me

It sounds like you've reached a conclusion you needed to reach. I came there much much earlier than you did. Answering challenge with challenge is not always the best response IMHO but yupps, there is something to deal with here.

Jennifer Smith wrote: I was one of those kids, too. This is what I did. http://www.santacruz.k12.ca.us/alt_e...dspirit07.html

Excellent body of work. I was one of those kids as well and have been sharing the principles of Aikido with at risk kids for over 16 years now mostly within the California Youth Authority System and in Recovery Centers.

I suppose I should start documenting this so when sceptics ask why learn Aikido... I could point them toward what you, Ellis, and George have done among others.

Thanks for sharing everyone.

William Hazen

One of the highest principles of Aikido IMHO is to be a nice guy.

I for one know what is is like to be a not a nice guy and I like to sleep at night.

George S. Ledyard wrote: ....The Federation folks have been very good about putting their people forward so they quite few Shihan. In my organization there are no non-Japanese Shihan. I suspect that is more the norm. Many organization don't use the system at all, so the only folks called Shihan are the Japanese instructors.

Hi, George,

Curious, this.

Have you talked with Saotome about his understanding of the term/title "SHIHAN"? That carving at the entrance to his house does say something like SHIHAN University, right? No one's graduated?! Or is it just assumed at some cut off rank (which would be...what?)

Thanks.

Don J. Modesto wrote: Hi, George, Curious, this. Have you talked with Saotome about his understanding of the term/title "SHIHAN"? That carving at the entrance to his house does say something like SHIHAN University, right? No one's graduated?! Or is it just assumed at some cut off rank (which would be...what?) Thanks.

Don,

What is the actual wording (in the sense that in Japanese shihan gakkou does not mean a school for shihan)?

Best wishes,

Don J. Modesto wrote: Hi, George, Curious, this. Have you talked with Saotome about his understanding of the term/title "SHIHAN"? That carving at the entrance to his house does say something like SHIHAN University, right? No one's graduated?! Or is it just assumed at some cut off rank (which would be...what?) Thanks.

Saotome Sensei has always used the more traditional usage... as far as he is concerned, his 6th Dans are "shihan". But in the sense that the term is used by the Aikkai, with whom we are associated, none of us are "officially" Shihan in the sense that we do not have any certificates from Honbu dojo stating that we are. When I started Aikido it seemed to be accepted that 6th Dan and up was considered "Shihan". Of course, at that time the senior Americans in Aikido were 4th Dans. Later, when their were a number of foreign 6th Dans, the bar seemed to get raised and "Shihan" seemed to be associated with 7th Dan. Of course, since the Dan ranks are finite, raising the bar every few years couldn't go on forever, so now that there are foreign 7th Dans, there are finally, foreign Shihan, complete with certificates. However, the last I checked, if you went to the Hombu dojo website and looked under their list of overseas instructors, you wouldn't find any of these foreign Shihan listed. In my opinion the real meaning of this title is in the process of being defined over time by the membership rather than the organization which issues the certificates.

Jennifer Smith wrote: Here a peg, there a peg, everywhere a peg, peg...ole macdonald had a dojo eeyi, eeyi, ohhhhh. From a family of 'Kokyu Hosers ', jen

Oh I laughed so much with this one

George S. Ledyard wrote: But in the sense that the term is used by the Aikkai, with whom we are associated, none of us are "officially" Shihan in the sense that we do not have any certificates from Honbu dojo stating that we are. When I started Aikido it seemed to be accepted that 6th Dan and up was considered "Shihan". Of course, at that time the senior Americans in Aikido were 4th Dans. Later, when their were a number of foreign 6th Dans, the bar seemed to get raised and "Shihan" seemed to be associated with 7th Dan. Of course, since the Dan ranks are finite, raising the bar every few years couldn't go on forever, so now that there are foreign 7th Dans, there are finally, foreign Shihan, complete with certificates. However, the last I checked, if you went to the Hombu dojo website and looked under their list of overseas instructors, you wouldn't find any of these foreign Shihan listed. In my opinion the real meaning of this title is in the process of being defined over time by the membership rather than the organization which issues the certificates.

Hello George,

There are interesting reasons why no foreign shihan are listed on the Aikikai website, the primary reason being that the title is official but confined entirely to the organization in which they are a shihan.

In Paris last March at the IAF meeting, several of us had a very interesting conversation with Yoshimitsu Yamada Sensei. He was surprised to know that he was a sort of super-shihan, able to award dan grades to anyone in the world, regardless of organization. Yamada-shi was one of the first group of shihans who went overseas at the request of Kisshomaru Ueshiba. There is a second group, also on the Aikikai website, but not distinguished from the first group, comprising those shihans whose activities are confined to a particular country. The third group are the foreign shihans who can give rank only within their organizations.

The ASU has no shihans in this third group because it is not an organization officially recognized by the Aikikai. If you look on the English section of the Aikikai website, you will see a list of organizations in the US officially recognized by the Aikikai, but the ASU is not on this list. I asked the present Doshu about this once and his answer was that all the grades were handled though Saotome Sensei personally, who, in effect is the only shihan within the ASU (though Hiroshi Ikeda might qualify, since he is Japanese and was Mr Saotome's deshi in Japan). And this leaves all the other people in Japan who are, or who are regarded as, shihans but have nothing to prove it.

As you can imagine, this is a labyrinth even for the Japanese...

Anyway, there is some pressure on the IAF to stop being a Mr Nice Guy to the Aikikai Hombu.

Best wishes,

Peter A Goldsbury wrote: In Paris last March at the IAF meeting, several of us had a very interesting conversation with Yoshimitsu Yamada Sensei. He was surprised to know that he was a sort of super-shihan, able to award dan grades to anyone in the world, regardless of organization. Yamada-shi was one of the first group of shihans who went overseas at the request of Kisshomaru Ueshiba.

SIR:

Who else qualifies as the same kind of super-shihan as Yamada? He is visiting my country in November and giving dan exams. It was helpful to me to learn that he has a kind of cross-border authority to award dan ranks. Also I was wondering why you said he was surprised to learn about this.

R

Peter A Goldsbury wrote: There are interesting reasons why no foreign shihan are listed on the Aikikai website, the primary reason being that the title is official but confined entirely to the organization in which they are a shihan.

Peter,

Thanks for the explanation. I am amazed at how you navigate this mine field... You know you're in trouble when the explanation leaves you more confused than you were before.

So, are you saying that Doran Sensei is an official Shihan of the organization of which he is one of the principles but that technically, he isn't a Shihan as far as the USAF is concerned? Or that when he travels back to Japan, he isn't a Shihan there? I hope that's not what I am hearing because that would make the real utility of the title fairly questionable, I would say. I mean, at least your Dan Ranking travels across borders... I'm a 6th Dan at Hombu and if I moved over to the USAF for some purely hypothetical reason, I would be a 6th Dan there.

I think I liked it better when it was simply a matter of "Because Sensei said so..."

Raul Rodrigo wrote: SIR: Who else qualifies as the same kind of super-shihan as Yamada? He is visiting my country in November and giving dan exams. It was helpful to me to learn that he has a kind of cross-border authority to award dan ranks. Also I was wondering why you said he was surprised to learn about this. R

Hello Raul,

Well I am not the Hombu, but I think that Hiroshi Tada, Nobuyoshi Tamura, Kazuo Chiba, the late Tohei Akira and Mitsunari Kanai, Seiichi Sugano and Katsuaki Asai qualify. Yamada Sensei was surprised to learn about this because he never knew: he had never been told until recently.

George S. Ledyard wrote: Peter, I think I liked it better when it was simply a matter of "Because Sensei said so..."

George it still is!!! Regarding Aikido the only opinion I care about is that of my sensei. Of course I'm old fashioned, old and broke down and old and in my dotage but hell the rest don't much matter to me. I am older and I think I have been doing Aikido under a Shihan's tutelage longer that most of the teachers at Hombu Dojo so its hard to care what they think.

Where is my Metamucil,

Dennis Hooker wrote: George it still is!!! Regarding Aikido the only opinion I care about is that of my sensei. Of course I'm old fashioned, old and broke down and old and in my dotage but hell the rest don't much matter to me. I am older and I think I have been doing Aikido under a Shihan's tutelage longer that most of the teachers at Hombu Dojo so its hard to care what they think. Where is my Metamucil,

Of course, that's the bottom line. But in the interest of moving through a world which seems increasingly smaller, having some common reference points are nice. I wouldn't mind playing by the rules if the rules made any sense...

The fact is, that amongst the folks who know, both here and in Japan, the first question they ask is "Who is your teacher and how long have you trained?" In our case that is enough, no further questions even get asked. But that isn't the case for everyone so it would be nice to understand what what the rules actually are. As near as I can tell, there are different sets of rules for folks who think they are playing the same game.

George S. Ledyard wrote: Peter, Thanks for the explanation. I am amazed at how you navigate this mine field... You know you're in trouble when the explanation leaves you more confused than you were before. So, are you saying that Doran Sensei is an official Shihan of the organization of which he is one of the principles but that technically, he isn't a Shihan as far as the USAF is concerned? Or that when he travels back to Japan, he isn't a Shihan there? I hope that's not what I am hearing because that would make the real utility of the title fairly questionable, I would say. I mean, at least your Dan Ranking travels across borders... I'm a 6th Dan at Hombu and if I moved over to the USAF for some purely hypothetical reason, I would be a 6th Dan there. I think I liked it better when it was simply a matter of "Because Sensei said so..."

George,

The organizations recognized by the Aikikai are:

1. Aikido Association of Northern California 114 Dexter Avenue Redwood City CA 94063-3617 U.S.A
2. Aikido Tenshinkai Federation http://www.tenshinkai.com/
3. California Aikido Association http://www.ai-ki-do.org/
4. Makoto Aikido Kyokai lreynosa@makotodojo.com
5. Takemusu Aikido Association 3809 Carlson Circle Palo Alto, CA94306 USA
6. United States Aikido Federation http://usaikifed.com/

The AANC is centered around Robert Nadeau, Frank Doran and Bill Witt, so Frank's Shihan title comes from his relationship with this organization, not from having been related to the ASU. Thus, he has the title, but his powers as shihan extend only within the AANC. He is certainly not a shihan in the USAF. Of course he has the title, but it is only a title.

As you suggest, one could indeed argue that it makes the utility of the title fairly questionable, but in my opinion this is a consequence of the new shihan rules. The title is exclusively tied to the organization within which one is a shihan and the only shihan who can transcend such organizational boundaries are the older deshi like Yamada and Saotome, who will soon disappear, and the members of the teaching staff of the Aikikai Honbu. Some older deshi have the title of Hombu Shihan, like Tada and Isoyama, but the shihan of the Hombu teaching staff are Honbu Shidoubu Shiban and the Aikikai newspaper is very careful about this.

Best wishes,

PS. I will eventually get round to issues like this in the Transmission, Inheritance, Emulation columns when we discuss issues like the value of aikido organizations.

PPS. Many apologies to the original poster for the thread drift.

Dennis Hooker wrote: George it still is!!! Regarding Aikido the only opinion I care about is that of my sensei. Of course I'm old fashioned, old and broke down and old and in my dotage but hell the rest don't much matter to me. I am older and I think I have been doing Aikido under a Shihan's tutelage longer that most of the teachers at Hombu Dojo so its hard to care what they think. Where is my Metamucil,

I've been reading your writing for years, Dennis.You had written a story related to an illness that you suffering from and how aikido was your present friend (my words). I am again in agreement and inspiration with your words. I couldn't care less either. For similar and different reasons.
As a woman I've had to accept glass ceilings for a long time. How long will it take for Honbu to award me a shihan certificate, should I deserve one? Based on ethnicity, politics, and gender, I'd say, I'm not holding my breath. Does that mean I'm not a Sensei? No. Does it mean my teacher isn't a shihan, no? It simply means I have to be satisfied with my life and training exactly for what it is in my life. I let my students and friends decide. Ironically, that realizaton is what happens to help me deal with this reoccuring issue as a woman in a modern world. My dance with this issue has created an incredibly powerful independence in my personal movement and has erased a lot of illusion in me and my colleagues.

Jennifer Smith wrote: I've been reading your writing for years, Dennis.You had written a story related to an illness that you suffering from and how aikido was your present friend (my words). I am again in agreement and inspiration with your words. I couldn't care less either. For similar and different reasons. As a woman I've had to accept glass ceilings for a long time. How long will it take for Honbu to award me a shihan certificate, should I deserve one? Based on ethnicity, politics, and gender, I'd say, I'm not holding my breath. Does that mean I'm not a Sensei? No. Does it mean my teacher isn't a shihan, no? It simply means I have to be satisfied with my life and training exactly for what it is in my life. I let my students and friends decide. Ironically, that realizaton is what happens to help me deal with this reoccuring issue as a woman in a modern world. My dance with this issue has created an incredibly powerful independence in my personal movement and has erased a lot of illusion in me and my colleagues. I'm sorry other people have to deal with this on other levels, also.

Hi Jennifer,
On the one hand, I am with you and Dennis on this. But on the other, it does effect me. I am a professional instructor. This is how I make my living. Now once I get a chance to work with someone, my stuff will either speak to them or not. But until I get "access" people will hang on to whatever is floating around to place me in their conceptual universe.

It's very bizarre what makes a difference. People have treated me completely differently since the first Aiki Expo, for instance. It took me out of being an obscure student of a well known teacher to having some standing in my own right. Ranks and Titles are how people who don't know make decisions about things. Folks at some dojo will invite shihan to teach over someone who doesn't have one unless they are given some more tangible reasons not to.

So it's that matter of access... once you are in and people see what you can do in person, those ranks and titles mean very little. But for folks who make their living teaching, it does make a difference in how widely you get to teach. If it didn't make any difference at all, people and organizations wouldn't use the titles, but they do. So we do have some reason to care because it can effect getting equal access. This is the risk associated with following teachers who do not follow the political mainstream and are themselves less known. Once they are gone and you are on your own, no one cares where you came from. It's nice to have some tangible form of recognition which cuts across the lines.

You and Dennis and I don't really have to worry. We've been blessed to train with some of the finest teachers there are. For us, that is really enough. But I am 55, I just saw one of my fellow ASU seniors pass away, so I am sensitive to the issue of what will my students be able to say? When they tell people 25 years from now that they trained with George Ledyard, will that mean anything or will it not?

It's not that a Shihan certificate really means much but if there are no female Shihan, that does end up meaning something. It can be the fact that someone has one who has no more qualifications than you do but you do not have one that can be meaningful.

Our teachers will always be our teachers. But we need to carry on after they are gone and these issues can effect that ability.

George S. Ledyard wrote: Hi Jennifer, On the one hand, I am with you and Dennis on this. But on the other, it does effect me. I am a professional instructor. This is how I make my living. Now once I get a chance to work with someone, my stuff will either speak to them or not. But until I get "access" people will hang on to whatever is floating around to place me in their conceptual universe. It's very bizarre what makes a difference. People have treated me completely differently since the first Aiki Expo, for instance. It took me out of being an obscure student of a well known teacher to having some standing in my own right. Ranks and Titles are how people who don't know make decisions about things. Folks at some dojo will invite shihan to teach over someone who doesn't have one unless they are given some more tangible reasons not to. So it's that matter of access... once you are in and people see what you can do in person, those ranks and titles mean very little. But for folks who make their living teaching, it does make a difference in how widely you get to teach. If it didn't make any difference at all, people and organizations wouldn't use the titles, but they do. So we do have some reason to care because it can effect getting equal access. This is the risk associated with following teachers who do not follow the political mainstream and are themselves less known. Once they are gone and you are on your own, no one cares where you came from. It's nice to have some tangible form of recognition which cuts across the lines. You and Dennis and I don't really have to worry. We've been blessed to train with some of the finest teachers there are. For us, that is really enough. But I am 55, I just saw one of my fellow ASU seniors pass away, so I am sensitive to the issue of what will my students be able to say? When they tell people 25 years from now that they trained with George Ledyard, will that mean anything or will it not? It's not that a Shihan certificate really means much but if there are no female Shihan, that does end up meaning something. It can be the fact that someone has one who has no more qualifications than you do but you do not have one that can be meaningful. Our teachers will always be our teachers. But we need to carry on after they are gone and these issues can effect that ability.

I completely agree with everything you just said. The difference is how I imagine myself going about getting access for all the correct reasons. The reasons you yourself outlined above. But my life is short, just as yours, and the number of years I have left to fight the fight for equality are numbered. And even more numbered is the amount of energy I have to put in any one direction to effect. I fought as a young girl to achieve the right to play first string catcher on a baseball little league team before title 9, even though I was hands down the most skilled, practiced, dedicated and talented person on the team (if I may say so myself ). I fought, the commission said 'maybe later'. i fought more and they said 'yes'. I essentially had to shame them into it; as a 10 yr. old. Now other girls enjoy the rights I fought for, yet I gave up baseball at 13 because the politics were so much more entrenched in Pony League; I knew which battle to leave. I'm proud and pleased to have helped other young women enjoy the freedom they have to play sports today.But aikido is a longer hill up than the issues with baseball. And that is just with American sexism isssues. Now add on to that cultural bias and you can see how much work that becomes. Yet, I'm sure you've noticed by now, I'm no quitter. But being this far behind the eight ball in this game would take me a lifetime to change, if at all. I'd rather not.
What do I do then, if not fight the system? Well, I'm glad you asked , I establish independent value by valuing all of the many things that Japan doesn't as well as what it does value. I value my elders and I show it openly. I value my students, and I show it openly. I value public education, and I show it openly. I value people with integrity who sometimes get sidelined because of it, and I show it openly. I value good hard hands on work, and I show it openly. I value the right to be yourself, and I show it openly. I value the least of my brothers, and I show it openly.I know you do to. I've read it in your posts.
It may not be in the Aikido community that I gain the recognition and the exposure that I definitely deserve, but it is because of Aikido that I can show it, and I let everyone know. I have found my teaching home in alternative education sites. But a man like you, Sir, has a lot more chance of making a dent in this operation
from the inside than a girl like me. I completely support you in doing that and I would actively support you if I could ever make a difference.

I'm a professional instructor also. I'm well respected for my training, my teaching, and my heart, mostly by the shihan with whom I have practiced But I can not hope for the access that many people feel they need to make their machines run. I also wonder if people will recognize the value of my gifts when I am gone, even though I know them to be tried and true and authentic to O'Sensei's teaching. Even though I know them to be different, if not more important, than what a lot of people are saying in aikido classes and teaching. But adversity creates creativity in creative people, and that I am. And so I proudly go about my work, training my path, and looking for the thread that leads me to a place where I can share this remarkable gift that Jesus ( and O'Sensei, and my parents and my teachers ) left for me. I've had to find the value of my work in a different place than many of my training partners have had. The traditional ones just aren't available to me; and that's alright now that I have found another way. I had to knock on unusual doors to gain any access at all.

I hope I can help others find their ways through this maze, too. And I hope you keep fighing the good fight, as they say. I know we could all use the help.

I alway enjoy your conversation and the authenticity of your voice. Thanks.

Peter A Goldsbury wrote: George, The organizations recognized by the Aikikai are: 1. Aikido Association of Northern California 114 Dexter Avenue Redwood City CA 94063-3617 U.S.A 2. Aikido Tenshinkai Federation http://www.tenshinkai.com/ 3. California Aikido Association http://www.ai-ki-do.org/ 4. Makoto Aikido Kyokai lreynosa@makotodojo.com 5. Takemusu Aikido Association 3809 Carlson Circle Palo Alto, CA94306 USA 6. United States Aikido Federation http://usaikifed.com/

Peter,
What about Aikikai Associates - West Coast?
http://www.aikidoacademysocal.com/indexbb.html

Ricky Wood wrote: Peter, What about Aikikai Associates - West Coast? http://www.aikidoacademysocal.com/indexbb.html

Ricky,

The list is here: http://www.aikikai.or.jp/eng/index.htm
Click on Overseas Organizations (bottom left).

PAG

that was very informative message to us....I hope, we should understand the meaning of "humbleness". to avoid those circumstances.

have a very Aikiday!