bowing during testing

I seem to remember 2 different protocols for testing and I'm wondering if anyone has any definitive answers for which is correct:

at the beginning of tests we bow 1] O'sensei 2] our Sensei's and 3]our partner. But at the end is it the same or reversed with O'sensei at the end?


Toby

We reverse the process.

We do not reverse.
It is strong hierarchy. Always Shomen (mostly with picture of O Sensei) first, then the tester - caution! Do not bow on being called, but only when the tester (snsei) starts bowing - he might not be prepared. And finally your partner.

The other explanation is, that the end of something is never the end, but the beginning of something else - so why reverse?


Dirk

We reverse the process, too.

We reverse here in the UK, as we did in Japan too. When we start, O Sensei is first, then grading panel, then partner. When we finish, it's partner first, grading panel, and O Sensei last.

rgds
Bryan

Here in the Bay Area: some dojo's reverse the order at the end...and some do not.

We reverse, too. I guess there is no definitive answer, though.

ask your sensei he will set you straight

we reverse. that is what signals the end.

If yesterday's test practice was correct, we do shomen, instructors, partner and then partner, shomen, instructors--i.e. neither the same nor reversed! (But I'm not positive the junior instructor had it the same way sensei would.)

Figure out what your dojo does, and do that. If you are testing at a huge seminar, everyone will probably do different things anyway--they certainly did at Winter Camp.

When in doubt, try to look relaxed and confident, and synchronize with your testing partner as much as you can. No matter what odd thing you do, don't get flustered. The calmness will carry over into your test.

Mary Kaye

We do shomen, then partner at the beginning of the test and partner, then shomen, then testing committee at the end.

How do they do it at Aikikai honbu dojo?

Then again what about Yoshinkan?

Then again what about Yoshinkan?

Depends on the Yoshinkan dojo and the customs they follow. However none that I have come across bow to shomen (O'Sensei or Shioda Kancho). Usually, you bow to the testing instructor, then your partner. You reverse that at the end. I'm sure other schools may do something different.

Steven Miranda wrote: Depends on the Yoshinkan dojo and the customs they follow. However none that I have come across bow to shomen (O'Sensei or Shioda Kancho). Usually, you bow to the testing instructor, then your partner. You reverse that at the end. I'm sure other schools may do something different.

My dojo is Chudokai Yoshinkan, and we bow Shomen(O'Sensei), testing panal, partner when bow in, then we bow out with partner, then bow out with testing panal, then we give last respects to O'Sensei by bowing to the Shomen, but as others have said this can change from dojo to dojo even with-in our affiliated dojos

My sensei advises us all... when in doubt, bow. It's up to us, but when it doubt, bow. He has never in all his decades of teaching taken points off for bowing too much. But if you don't bow enough, you lose points. The higher up in the ranks you climb, the higher the penalty for not bowing when you should. Makes sense.

Jason Hooper wrote: My sensei advises us all... when in doubt, bow.

I agree. My sensei says "You will not offended someone by bowing too much."

And like you said...

Jason Hooper wrote: Makes sense.

the higher the penalty for not bowing when you should

sorry, can I just check this, your gradings are also dependant on your bowing capabilities?

Ian Hurst wrote: sorry, can I just check this, your gradings are also dependant on your bowing capabilities?

i don't think you were asking me , though i quoted from Jason, but just it case you were asking me as well as Jason, to clear things up about my sensei, no he does not take off for not bowing correctly... though it is expected that you would know how to bow in and out by a certain rank

Ian Hurst wrote: sorry, can I just check this, your gradings are also dependant on your bowing capabilities?

Not your bowing "capabilities"; everybody is capable of bowing. You would lose points for not having a due sense of respect. The longer you've been around the dojo, the more reasonable it is to expect that this sense of respect has been developed. So yes, you lose points, and I agree completely with it.

Mary Kuhner wrote: ... we do shomen, instructors, partner and then partner, shomen, instructors--i.e. neither the same nor reversed!

We do the same thing, Mary. Except that technically, we don't have to bow to the instructor -- and I'm referring to ki society. I can't remember the reasoning behind it. Something about how the other two bows are requirements. However, after the explanation -- given just before testing -- everyone still bowed to the instructor(s). How could we not?

In my personal dojo, we reverse so that the first and last bow is to the founders.