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07-24-2007, 12:50 PM
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#1
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Dojo: Seiwa Dojo and Southside Dojo
Location: Battle Creek & Kalamazoo, MI
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,677
Offline
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combat umbrella
A real, modern-day carry weapon
Bronson
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"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."
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07-24-2007, 03:15 PM
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#2
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Dojo: Shin Ryu Aikido
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 7
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Re: combat umbrella
haha...so who's gonna make the first umbrella kata ??
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07-24-2007, 05:40 PM
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#3
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Dojo: Aikido Sangenkai
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,313
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Re: combat umbrella
Quote:
Johnathon Haase wrote:
haha...so who's gonna make the first umbrella kata ??
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Umbrella techniques are not uncommon in Japanese arts - even Daito-ryu has a few.
Best,
Chris
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07-24-2007, 08:03 PM
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#4
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Location: Quezon City
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 777
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Re: combat umbrella
Shiro Omiya's book The hidden roots of aikido has an umbrella waza--what to do if someone tries to take away your umbrella.
R
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07-24-2007, 08:08 PM
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#5
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Dojo: Aikido Sangenkai
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,313
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Re: combat umbrella
Quote:
Raul Rodrigo wrote:
Shiro Omiya's book The hidden roots of aikido has an umbrella waza--what to do if someone tries to take away your umbrella.
R
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I'm not sure how much stock I'd put in Omiya...
Best,
Chris
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07-24-2007, 08:52 PM
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#6
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Location: Quezon City
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 777
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Re: combat umbrella
Same here, Chris. I just thought I'd mention it as an example of what you were talking about.
best,
R
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07-24-2007, 11:37 PM
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#7
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Location: Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 39
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Re: combat umbrella
Here's just one example from Daito-ryu:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvPEU9mAX5Y
I'd call it self-defense with an umbrella rather than "combat".
A.G.
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07-24-2007, 11:51 PM
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#8
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Dojo: Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui Group Philippines
Location: Plymouth, UK
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 492
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Re: combat umbrella
I believe that the umbrella techniques that Mas Oyama included in some of his books (eg. Vital Karate) came from his training under Kotaro Yoshida, and were purportedly from Daito-Ryu. The versions of Nikkajo and Sankajo shown in the books were probably also derived from his training with Yoshida.
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Inocencio Maramba, MD, MSc
Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui
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07-25-2007, 01:08 AM
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#9
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Location: Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 39
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Re: combat umbrella
Yeah I'd agree with that. I've seen the "self defense" techniques from Kyokushinkai and they include variations of many Daito-ryu Jujutsu techniques. IOW they're joint locking techniques, kind of like Aikido techniques but they totally lack the precise sophistication of Daito Ryu or Yanagi Ryu.
I also heard that a senior Kyokushinkai instructor also trained in the Roppokai with Okamoto sensei.
A.G.
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07-25-2007, 12:49 PM
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#10
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,415
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Re: combat umbrella
Quote:
Bronson Diffin wrote:
A real, modern-day carry weapon
Bronson
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But, will it keep you dry in the rain?
What is the point of having a weapon that looks like an umbrella if is does not function like an umbrella also?
David
Last edited by dps : 07-25-2007 at 12:52 PM.
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Go ahead, tread on me.
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07-25-2007, 01:10 PM
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#11
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Dojo: Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui Group Philippines
Location: Plymouth, UK
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 492
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Re: combat umbrella
at the end of the video he opens the umbrella.. it's not one of those self opening ones though..
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Inocencio Maramba, MD, MSc
Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui
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07-25-2007, 03:28 PM
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#12
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,415
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Re: combat umbrella
Quote:
Cito Maramba wrote:
at the end of the video he opens the umbrella.. it's not one of those self opening ones though..
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But it wasn't raining.
David
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Go ahead, tread on me.
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07-25-2007, 04:13 PM
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#13
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Dojo: Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui Group Philippines
Location: Plymouth, UK
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 492
Offline
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Re: combat umbrella
Quote:
David Skaggs wrote:
But it wasn't raining.
David
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Perhaps they should have thrown a bucket of water on him to prove that it was waterproof..
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Inocencio Maramba, MD, MSc
Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui
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07-26-2007, 12:00 AM
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#14
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,415
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Re: combat umbrella
Quote:
Cito Maramba wrote:
Perhaps they should have thrown a bucket of water on him to prove that it was waterproof..
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Yes.
David
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Go ahead, tread on me.
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07-26-2007, 08:50 AM
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#15
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Dojo: Confluence Aiki-Dojo / Santa Cruz Sword Club
Location: Santa Cruz
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,049
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Re: combat umbrella
Quote:
David Skaggs wrote:
Yes.
David
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I can think of a couple of posters who I'd like to check for 'weatherproofing'.
-present company excluded.
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Jennifer Paige Smith
Confluence Aikido Systems
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08-01-2007, 03:46 PM
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#16
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Location: bethlehem PA
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 127
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Re: combat umbrella
Are there different techniques for those little "tote's" umbrellas or perhaps the kind you find in mixed drinks? Are these techniques effective on sunny days? Get Real!
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08-01-2007, 03:56 PM
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#17
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Dojo: Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui Group Philippines
Location: Plymouth, UK
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 492
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Re: combat umbrella
You can order the umbrella in the video here. It's bloody expensive!
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Inocencio Maramba, MD, MSc
Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui
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08-02-2007, 04:05 PM
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#18
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Dojo: Big Green Drum (W. Florida Aikikai)
Location: West Florida
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,619
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Re: combat umbrella
Quote:
Al Gutierrez wrote:
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I dunno. Pranin documented in an interview with Ikkusai Iwata that Takeda would demonstrate its use against a sword (kasatori) in Ueshiba Juku in Mejiro in the 30's:
http://www.aikidojournal.com/article?articleID=406
The original video seems actually more like walking stick techniques in savate, which given the source, makes some sense.
There was this for straight handled umbrellas : http://www.real-self-defense.com/vid...o_straight.wmv
Last edited by Erick Mead : 08-02-2007 at 04:17 PM.
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Cordially,
Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
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08-02-2007, 05:43 PM
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#19
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Dojo: Aikido of Midland
Location: Midland Texas
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,652
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Re: combat umbrella
The systema guys use it to beat the crap out of the attacker in the improvised weapons tape. He even sticks one of the tines up the guys nose-ouch.
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08-05-2007, 12:28 AM
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#20
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Location: Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 39
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Re: combat umbrella
Quote:
I can think of a couple of posters who I'd like to check for 'weatherproofing'.
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You mean "give a shellacking to"?
The last vid looks like hapkido cane techniques to me.
It still seems like self defense to me, who ever heard of anyone marching into combat with an umbrella? Anyway, Daito Ryu has a lot of nice umbrella techniques, I've seen a few besides the ones on YouTube, some are like the usual hanbo jutsu, while others are more like aikijujutsu while holding or carrying an umbrella.
IIRC Sokaku Takeda also carried a hidden sword in his favorite walking cane.
A.G.
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08-05-2007, 12:43 PM
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#21
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Dojo: Big Green Drum (W. Florida Aikikai)
Location: West Florida
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,619
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Re: combat umbrella
Quote:
Al Gutierrez wrote:
It still seems like self defense to me, who ever heard of anyone marching into combat with an umbrella?
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Apparently, the Brits have:
http://i.cnn.net/cnn/2003/WORLD/meas...mbrella.ap.jpg
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Cordially,
Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
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08-05-2007, 02:49 PM
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#22
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Dojo: Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui Group Philippines
Location: Plymouth, UK
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 492
Offline
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Re: combat umbrella
In the battle for the Arnhem bridge in World War II, Major Allison Digby Tatham-Warter of the 2nd Battalion, British 1st Airborne Division, led his men in a bayonet charge
Quote:
carrying a pistol in one hand, madly swinging his umbrella about his head with the other
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His reason for carrying the umbrella was:
Quote:
because he could never remember the password, and it would be quite obvious to anyone that the bloody fool carrying the umbrella could only be an Englishman.
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He did also use the umbrella combatively during the Arnhem battle:
Quote:
On another occasion he used the rolled up umbrella to in-effect disable a German armoured car, simply by thrusting it through an observation slit in the vehicle and incapacitating the driver.
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In the hands of a trained warrior, anything becomes a weapon.. even against guns and tanks.
Biography of Major Tatham-Warter
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Inocencio Maramba, MD, MSc
Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui
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