Testing for 2nd kyu and beyond

Hello all,

In my style of Aikido, I have recently learned that test for 2nd kyu, 1st kyu, and all dans must occur at a national event for our federation. This has caused some problems within my own club, because a national event only occurs locally once every three years. All other times, we have to do some serious travelling. (By serious, I mean that air travel is involved.)

This aspect of our organization is not going to change, but I am curious: at your dojo, how high can you test?

(Personally, I'm fortunate that my students understand that testing is only a small part of their training. However, I am a bit jealous of other dojos that don't have to travel as much to get to national events. )

Hi David,

My Sensei can administer tests up to 1st kyu; after that, we have to go to Japan and be tested by his Sensei.
Such is the fate of small, unaffiliated clubs like ours.

I count myself as exceptionally lucky that for my shodan exam in about 2 weeks, his Sensei will be coming here. Of course this all could have been avoided if I would have tested in Japan 3 years ago . Though secretly, I was ready to give the "But honey, I HAVE to go to Japan. What choice do I have?" -speech to my wife.

We had a member from France, and if I recount the story correctly, she told of how she failed her shodan twice. Not because her Sensei did not feel she deserved it, but because there are 2 "judges" at your test; one from your federation, and one from the other. Also, you are paired for your test with someone from the other federation, which can get awkward style-wise. And to complicate things, to retain a sense of impartiality, one judge should not judge their own student as passing then judge the other as having failed.

This is what happened to my friend; she got paired with someone who was not up to snuff, and as a result they both failed. My friend's sensei actually was informed by the other judge my friend should have passed.

Sounds easier to go to Japan....

I am of many minds about the issue of testing and grading, not because it isn't worth doing but because syllabi and testing standards - as with all arts, I suppose - is so varied.

Pass/Fail standards have a tendency to lump A grade Passers with B- Passers and forcing all Passers to have to be A grade is perhaps unrealistic or unfair. Perhaps. As the individual rises, though, the passing standard should rise so that only those truly capable and worthy should be awarded Shodan...or maybe even 1st Kyu.

I guess all this argues for the fact that someone or some people with exacting standards should decide on test results. One way of looking at having to go to Japan (the Centre) is that your Pass could be worth a lot more than someone else's who tested and passed elsewhere (the Periphery). Very aikido-like, no?

Good luck, you guys!

Shahryn Azmi wrote: ...I guess all this argues for the fact that someone or some people with exacting standards should decide on test results. One way of looking at having to go to Japan (the Centre) is that your Pass could be worth a lot more than someone else's who tested and passed elsewhere (the Periphery). Very aikido-like, no?...

The Centre of What? There is only one real judge in any test and that is yourself. The rest is just paperwork.

There are many people who concern themselves with getting a black belt. After they make shodan they quit, since they achieved their goal. You'd be better off in the long run, if you spend the time learning aikido than gaining rank.

Y'know, it's funny; whenever people hear "I have to go to Japan to test for shodan.", they usually react as if I have just told them "I alone am the One True Anointed One, bow before me.".
If taken out of context, it can sound snooty, but WE HAVE NO CHOICE at our dojo. We are not affiliated with ANY federation or organization here in North America, and as such, shodan and above tests MUST be administered by our "mother" dojo in Japan. Good or bad, that's how it is.

Now Ted, I believe we would all agree that The Center of, say, boomerang throwing is Australia, and cowboy-ing is the Western U.S.; so too is Japan The Center of Aikido. It's where it started.
I fully believe that the quality and sincerity of Aikido being practiced anywhere else in the world is of the same caliber as that found in Japan.

I could not agree more that ranks are just paperwork (and $$$).

We might even be saying the same thing, gents, but there's ranks and there's grades or more precisely, grad-ING. I remember doing my first grading and realizing that, no matter how well nailed down I thought I had the basic requirements, when it came time to do them with all to witness, I was horrible. Sure, I passed, but my centre was somewhere in between my shoulder blades and I was trying to outmuscle the uke which I did quite well actually. Anyway, that grading vs. my newfound rank taught me that I actually knew - and could do - nuts, and really needed to go back to the mat and keep at it.

During the 1960's there was a small group in Chicago which lost their instructor. The group decided to continue practice and whenever they tested, they shot 8mm film of the test and mailed it to Japan for verification. Maybe the dojo can ask your headquarters about submitting video to verify tests. With the Internet, it would be a fairly quick process.

It seems unnecessary for an organization to ask it's members to travel thousands of miles to verify a shodan test. Not only does it put a burden on the individual, but it slows the overall growth of the organization. In Japan shodan is a rank that in some styles can be achieved within a year - two years with normal training.

The center of aikido is in your life, not in some foreign place.

Ted Ehara wrote: During the 1960's there was a small group in Chicago which lost their instructor. The group decided to continue practice and whenever they tested, they shot 8mm film of the test and mailed it to Japan for verification. Maybe the dojo can ask your headquarters about submitting video to verify tests. With the Internet, it would be a fairly quick process. It seems unnecessary for an organization to ask it's members to travel thousands of miles to verify a shodan test. Not only does it put a burden on the individual, but it slows the overall growth of the organization. In Japan shodan is a rank that in some styles can be achieved within a year - two years with normal training. The center of aikido is in your life, not in some foreign place.

Don't get me wrong; I don't think there is a single member of our club who would not prefer Sensei to be closer, or there be an "easier" way to have dan tests administered/verified. And we are considering the video/web alternative, though I suspect my Sensei and our Japanese Sensei would prefer, given the choice, it be in person; maybe meet in California

However, I doubt anyone here who started Aikido ever dreamed of asking "When it comes time for my shodan test, where would it be, and who will administer it." If that were the case, maybe we all would should start including that in our responses to those asking for guidance on choosing a dojo. I know that I train where I do for the overall quality of the teaching and attitude of my fellow students. Leaving there to have easier access to grading would be akin to throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

I agree with your statements on burden, but am not so sure I agree with your opinion on growth. If growth were based on centralizing and grouping of dojos/aikidoka, the ideal arrangement would be one huge dojo, which would seem to contradict your statement about where the center of aikido is.

Out of curiosity, Ted, is your dojo part of a larger federation/org? Who & How are your dan grade tests administered?

And thanks!

When I'm writing about growth, I'm using it in two different ways. One is the growth of the individual. For that, the center of aikido is their training. The second usage is for the growth of the organization. In this term, organization is more than one dojo. It is more like a federation or association. How the organization communicates and accredits it's individual members is a factor of its growth, i.e. How many members it acquires and how fast it acquires them.

I am fortunate in that I have a 6th dan Chief Instructor. He can promote up to 5th dan in aikido techniques. However, because we are part of the Ki Society, we also have ki development ranks that are necessary for aikido rankings. Presently, he can promote up to nidan, giving both the ki development and aikido ranking tests.

For further dan gradings, you need the higher ki development ranks. Presently, several 7th dan and two 8th dan sensei can test for those in the US. Since they all teach in the US, it is not too hard to get tested by them.

In my dojo there is examinations up to ikkyu, theoretically there is possibility to exam dan grades too because we have high ranked head instructors (6:th, 6:th, 5:th and 3 4:th dans), but we go for the dan grades on our yearly summer- seminar when our sensei from japan visits us. Often there are visitors from other dojos doing their dan exams at the seminar so usually it is a lot of people examining

I am fortunate that my Sensei can promote to I believe 4th degree if not 5th, the next time you are in the Tulsa, Oklahoma area please stop by and show us your techniques, we are always glad to have Aikido travelers in our dojo showing us cool new stuff!

Nick don't feel so bad about traveling a far distance. My dojo had one guy who was I believe a 3rd dan in TKD. He had to go to Korea for any higher dan tests.

David Shevitz wrote: Hello all, In my style of Aikido, I have recently learned that test for 2nd kyu, 1st kyu, and all dans must occur at a national event for our federation. This has caused some problems within my own club, because a national event only occurs locally once every three years. All other times, we have to do some serious travelling. (By serious, I mean that air travel is involved.

Don't feel bad about the air travel. It makes the students go to the national events and meet new meat, get exposed to different approaches to your style of Aikido, and practice with some higher ranks. I like my students to test at Summer Camp if possible, even for gokkyu. It means travelling from Barbados to Victoria, British Columbia, Canada. Some try to make it there every year even if they are not testing. BTW, it can cost some of them up to 1.5 months of salary to go.

Rock

I am not one too concerned with rank, but when my day comes, I am fortunate to have several of high ranking sensei.Also once a year Yamada Sensei comes to the dojo. I feel the same way about the whole shoulder blades in the back, and my center out of wack.Maybe, someday if the funds allow, I do want to go to Japan, and see where O'Sensei was, lived. I have only seen pictures, but nothing is better than the real thing. Say someone said 1-2 years for shodan, not that it is a big deal, but in the USAF if a test should occur 6-8 years for shodan? My question is, What is the difference between USAF, and all the other Federations, just test requirements, or is that just an isolated thing? Thanks for any info!

I'm curious... all these groups who have to go to Japan to test. Who pays for the trip? If it's the students, then there's an inherent bias against students with lower incomes. Some friends of mine have trouble just paying the honbu fees for the higher dan ranks. If you add a couple grand plane ticket and you're talking a lot of money here (and time away from work). It's one thing to require your students to be responsible for the monthly dues, but add this trip to the fatherland every few years and you're pricing a lot of people right out of the art.

At some point the Japanese Sensei is going to have to relinquish a little responsibility and allow the us based instructor to give some rank least he loose students.

My 2.26639938 yen.

Hello Again, I know that is expensive even for any income, unless your rich. If you have the money I say do it, but the price of true training is invaluable. In the USAF we do pay a small membership fee to promote events, seminars so the Shihan's can come to our neck of the woods. It does help though being close to Sensei or having a resident Sensei. Any way I know it is important to belong to an organization that is extablished in the art and is recognized, however why do you have to, if you are being trained correctly, legitiamitely by a Sensei that is, or has been trained correctly. Why can't they test theirstudentswithin their ownestablishment. Now I know thereis commodary, and the sharing of ideas, and styles, but if you cannot afford to travel, or have a Sensei come to your dojo then tape it, email it whatever. The point I am trying to make is if you are legitly being trained why can't your Senior (Shodan-Nidan-Sandan-Yondon's etc.promote to their respective rank?Just a thought.

Many Thanks Jamie

~EDIT:
After further reading, I must retract my statement about mail-away black belt programs. I apologize if I offended anyone.
http://www.skhquest.com/skhbio.aspx

James Kelly wrote: I'm curious... all these groups who have to go to Japan to test. Who pays for the trip? If it's the students, then there's an inherent bias against students with lower incomes. Some friends of mine have trouble just paying the honbu fees for the higher dan ranks. If you add a couple grand plane ticket and you're talking a lot of money here (and time away from work). It's one thing to require your students to be responsible for the monthly dues, but add this trip to the fatherland every few years and you're pricing a lot of people right out of the art. At some point the Japanese Sensei is going to have to relinquish a little responsibility and allow the us based instructor to give some rank least he loose students. My 2.26639938 yen.

I agree with both your points.
But I must repeat; I started learning where I did because of how it felt, and still feels; not the economics of furthering my grading. If I was concerned about money versus advancing, I would get me one of these http://www.skhquest.com/shop/DVDblackbeltcourses.aspx and call myself Koncho (or whatever the title is) as that would be the best bang for the buck. I imagine most people began their training in a similar manner, and are motivated to keep training where they train for the simple love of the Aikido they are learning....testing and grading be damned (though I admit it is sometimes important).

As for Japanese Sensei relinquishing responsibility, I would agree with that statement if the Sensei was witholding the responsibility for some petty, ego-driven reasons. In my case, the Sensei has no responsibility to relinquish, as he himself cannot test beyond shodan, and those instructions come from Fujita Shihan directly.

Yes, my trip to Japan for 3 weeks cost me about $2500~3000 CDN, and that was with a homestay (and lots of omiyage and a weekend in Kyoto). Expensive? You bet. But I would do it again in a hearbeat and tell everyone who asks "Sell your blood, mortgage your house; just go."

Another tactic; everyone chips in, say, $250 to bring the testing Sensei over (which we did). That actually has the biggest impact for the group as it's not just 2,3,4 people who go and come back, but everyone gets to share in it. It was also a blast.

Jamie Julien wrote: The point I am trying to make is if you are legitly being trained why can't your Senior (Shodan-Nidan-Sandan-Yondon's etc.promote to their respective rank?Just a thought. Many Thanks Jamie

I don't know, but I suspect it has alot to do with the opinion "The rank you have just been given is the rank you will grow in to."

Anyone ever hear of a sandan testing/signing someone for that same rank? I wonder...

A person who lives in a shithouse may call it Home Sweet Home until they visit a castle. A person who lives in a castle may think it is a hovel until they have to live in a shithouse. Insularity is a dangerous trait that must be broken if one is to progress, whether it is to see the castle or the shithouse. If you open your eyes, ears, mind, and feelings when you go for your testing somewhere else, you might learn more than you expected for the lessons are not just in the waza. Tai-iku, Ki-iku, Toku-iku, Joshiki-no-Kanyo.

Rock

Nick,

I wasn't speaking about your decision to train where you do. That's up to you. I was talking about the biases inherent in an institution that requires people to shell out thousands of dollars to get rank. "Mortgage your house" only works if you have a house...

And when I said that the Japanese Sensei should relinquish responsibility, I meant whoever it is that makes the rule that you have to go to Japan to test. As the organization grows (assuming he wants it to grow), he won't be able to see every shodan test (or ni dan or .... ) and he'll have to trust that the people he's trained have the experience to administer tests.

Jamie Julien wrote: Hello Again, I know that is expensive even for any income, unless your rich. If you have the money I say do it, but the price of true training is invaluable. In the USAF we do pay a small membership fee to promote events, seminars so the Shihan's can come to our neck of the woods. It does help though being close to Sensei or having a resident Sensei. Any way I know it is important to belong to an organization that is extablished in the art and is recognized, however why do you have to, if you are being trained correctly, legitiamitely by a Sensei that is, or has been trained correctly. Why can't they test theirstudentswithin their ownestablishment. Now I know thereis commodary, and the sharing of ideas, and styles, but if you cannot afford to travel, or have a Sensei come to your dojo then tape it, email it whatever. The point I am trying to make is if you are legitly being trained why can't your Senior (Shodan-Nidan-Sandan-Yondon's etc.promote to their respective rank?Just a thought. Many Thanks Jamie

Jamie,

I totally agree with you on this. The reason most dan grades can't grade people past shodan or write certificates is due to politics and money. I believe that if a student reaches a certain grade they should automatically be allowed to instruct, grade and write out certificates for anyone below their level.

Darin Hyde wrote: Jamie, I totally agree with you on this. The reason most dan grades can't grade people past shodan or write certificates is due to politics and money. I believe that if a student reaches a certain grade they should automatically be allowed to instruct, grade and write out certificates for anyone below their level.

Bang on.

There are people outside of Japan with 50 years of Aikido experience. Why on earth would none of them be qualified to grade at higher level.

Respectfully

D

James,

Well put, and thanks for clarifying.

Funny, just recently the Japanese sensei has been given the green light to test people up to sandan, which leads me to believe my sensei (now sandan) will soon be able to test to shodan (at present OK'd to test to ikkyu). In this case, it's the age of the club (about 9 years old) that has been the main factor in a long-distance, testing-for-shodan arrangement. In the next 10 years, I imagine, members will likely only have to travel for nidan and above.

Best,
N-

PS - There is no rule that states testing in Japan must take place; our small un-affiliated club has no ties with any local org; so by default, visiting with the same sensei every couple of years makes him your tester.

Sure you could find a sensei willing to test you here in North America, that you have never really trained under, but most would likely agree that that would be awkard at best. Maybe that's just how I see it.

I am not sure but my Sensei can promote thru Ikkyu also. For Dan grades we do have to wait for Yamada Sensei to come to our dojo. I know I won't be testing for Yonkyu until October. It will be several years before I will get to Shodan. So I won't worry about that. When the time comes, however will start saving now if that is the case!

Regards, Jamie

Jamie Julien wrote: I am not sure but my Sensei can promote thru Ikkyu also. For Dan grades we do have to wait for Yamada Sensei to come to our dojo. I know I won't be testing for Yonkyu until October. It will be several years before I will get to Shodan. So I won't worry about that. When the time comes, however will start saving now if that is the case! Regards, Jamie

I'm pretty certain you sensei can test people up through sandan. Any shidoin in our association can, but most sensei in the USAF choose to wait until the big seminars so that their students test in front of Yamada Sensei and the other Shihan. I've seen people tested for shodan and nidan at our dojo, but usually that is usually when a person is moving away and if sensei feels that the person is ready for the rank. But that's the exception. Also, we usually host Winter Camp, when we have our dan tests infront of Yamada Sensei, so it's not a big deal about having to travel at least for us. No one is required to travel to Japan to test.