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Old 08-08-2011, 07:37 PM   #15
oisin bourke
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Dojo: Muden Juku, Ireland
Location: Kilkenny
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 359
Re: Restart on Jin/kokyu and "Spiraling"

Mark Murray wrote: View Post

winding what? Could you please define just how you are using the term jin as it compares/relates/contrasts to Japanese terminology. This is, after all, a Japanese martial art. Others have said that they don't know what you mean by jin. And we have seen cross talk because people define words differently. Otherwise, you could be talking about something completely and utterly different than what we, as readers, are thinking. For example, internal spirals work within any shape that the body holds. So, your "winding jin" must not be the same thing. Sounds like something very different from your Chinese background than what Ueshiba was doing.

This is, after all, a Japanese martial art. It really doesn't sound like you're talking about the same kinds of skills and abilities in regards to Ueshiba's aiki.
I've never really practiced any chinese martial art, apart from some classes with some hsing i/bagua/chen tai chi practitioners. Having said that, here's what I "think" Mike was getting at in relation to spiralling and "jin"

Mike posted a video a few months back demonstrating a "flexible frame". I saw this as a demonstration of connection between two points of contact on the body: an incoming force (i.e a push) and a point of stability (the ground).

The point he was trying to show, I believe, is that there should be a constant, reciprocal balancing of forces between these two points. There should be as little impediment as possible in the medium through which that force travels: the body.

The "purest" connection between these points is, for all intents and purposes, a straight line. Of course, as the force travels through a human body, the actual "line" of force is constantly changing, but conceptually, it's always a straight line.

This is the fundamental condition for "jin". The degree to which these points are connected relates to the purity of Jin. It doesn't matter what art,weapon or form someone is working with: Their degree of mastery of jin depends on how unified these two points of contact are.

Spiralling is essentially an exercise for conditioning the body/mind to connect these two points. However, if one uses spiralling, the connection is not a "pure" as it could be. There is always some "gross" movement involved.

Anyway, this is my reading of the thing. I could be completely wrong and have no problem with anyone destroying this description and explaining the whole thing clearly for dummies like myself.

Regardless, It's a topic worthy of discussion. IMO.

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