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thomasgroendal
05-15-2002, 08:34 PM
Here is something I could use some help with.
I need Japanese translations for some english ki society terminology (or is it Aikido Association of America stuff I have, I don't know)
Unbendable arm
Weight underside
Leading
Particularly if you have the tools to reply to my in Japanese it would be helpful.
yours truly
Tom Groendal

tedehara
05-29-2002, 03:27 PM
Hi Tom,

Sorry I can't help. :(
All my books are in English!
Maybe someone like Jun can help. :)

Take care,

akiy
05-29-2002, 03:44 PM
Originally posted by tedehara
Maybe someone like Jun can help. :)
I, too, don't have any of Tohei sensei's books in Japanese. I think my teacher had some of Tohei sensei's books in Japanese on his shelf at his house; I'll see if I can ask to borrow them sometime.

Chris (Li)? Do you have any of his books within arm's reach?

-- Jun

Chris Li
05-29-2002, 04:31 PM
Originally posted by akiy

I, too, don't have any of Tohei sensei's books in Japanese. I think my teacher had some of Tohei sensei's books in Japanese on his shelf at his house; I'll see if I can ask to borrow them sometime.

Chris (Li)? Do you have any of his books within arm's reach?

-- Jun

You can get some of the basic Japanese at http://www.ki-aikido.jp/indx_J.htm

Or, here are the 4 basic principles (if the Japanese shows up):

1、臍下の一点に心をしずめ統一する。
2、全身の力を完全に抜く。
3、身体の総ての部分の重みを、その最下のおく。
4、氣を出す。

Best,

Chris

akiy
05-29-2002, 06:10 PM
Thanks, Chris.

So, for the Japanese speakers out there, how would you translate Tohei sensei's four principles?

My take:

Put the one point of your tanden into your spirit/heart (kokoro) and unify them.
Completely take away the power/strength from your entire body.
Put the heaviness of your entire body into its lowest parts.
Put out/radiate ki.

It's the first time I've seen Tohei sensei's four principles of aikido in Japanese.

-- Jun

thomasgroendal
05-29-2002, 06:57 PM
Very cool,
Thanks a lot, my computer is Japanese, so I had no problem viewing the characters.
It is also interesting the difference between the direct translation and a more *western* translation.
For instance, Jun so accurately translated Put the one point of your tanden into your spirit/heart (kokoro) and unify them.
However, when explaining this to a westerner, I would probably change the order of the words to putting your whole spirit heart mind(kokoro) into your center. I am not sure if that is meaningful, and I doubt it is, but I am glad, anyway to have the translations, THANKS!
The other thing that occurs to me as I think about the Japanese is that I kind of prefer the english versions. It almost seems like the english has been translated into the Japanese, (which is unlikely, but not impossible.)
気を出す ki o dasu, seems sort of vague, where as extend ki gi gives an image of the focusing of ones ki, at least to me. Weight underside is just much shorter than 身体の総ての部分の重みを、その最下におく。 Which is odd considering the Japanese proficiency at chopping phrases into neat little packages.
In any case I have been teaching this stuff to Japanese people for the last year, and feeling like a chump saying the arm that doesn't bend, and feeling sure that there was something a little more "unbendable arm" out there. (it was orenaite)
Thanks for the HELP!
Now if I can just stop failing my own ki-tests...

Chris Li
05-30-2002, 07:11 PM
Originally posted by akiy
Thanks, Chris.

So, for the Japanese speakers out there, how would you translate Tohei sensei's four principles?


I'd say:

1) Calm your mind and unify it with the one point of your lower abdomen.
2) Completely remove the power from your entire body.
3) Put the weight of all parts of your body into their bottoms.
4) Send out Ki.

I tried hard not to look at Jun's translations before I did the above, so they may be a little bit different :).

Best,

Chris

Chris Li
05-30-2002, 07:14 PM
Originally posted by thomasgroendal
It almost seems like the english has been translated into the Japanese, (which is unlikely, but not impossible.)

That's an interesting idea, because I've always wondered if the term "kiatsu" (also coined by K. Tohei) was specifically created for English speakers. The kanji for "kiatsu" mean "barometric pressure" (as in the weather), so most Japanese speakers just give you odd looks when you use the word. In English, on the other hand, it's easily understood as a variation of the word "shiatsu", which was trendy when Tohei started pushing the "kiatsu" stuff. Could well be wrong though...

Best,

Chris

akiy
05-30-2002, 08:20 PM
Originally posted by Chris Li
I tried hard not to look at Jun's translations before I did the above, so they may be a little bit different :).
Actually, they were pretty close!

I interpreted "shizume" differently; I like your interpretation better...

As far as your "kiatsu" hypothesis goes, I've wondered about that term, too. I'd have to bet that more than 99% of native Japanese speakers wouldn't define it to be the Ki Society healing method...

-- Jun

Chris Li
05-30-2002, 08:32 PM
Originally posted by akiy

Actually, they were pretty close!

I interpreted "shizume" differently; I like your interpretation better...


Thanks! There weren't any kanji, but it seemed to make sense from the context...

Best,

Chris