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stevenl
07-22-2008, 01:09 PM
Greetings to all teachers,students and friends.let me start by saying if i offend anyone here,i deeply apologize.i know by saying the name of The Honorable Bruce Lee may bring back some sad or painful memories.but i still believe in what he was trying to do.and i am a faithful student of his teachings.i just want to ask everyone their views about his life,and if he was still with us today,would he be influenced in aikido in a positive way? please feel free to express your emotions. thanks everyone.

CitoMaramba
07-22-2008, 02:13 PM
Some of the drawings in Bruce Lee's notes (which were put together posthumously and published as "The Tao of Jeet Kune Do") are clearly tracings of pictures from Koichi Tohei's early Aikido books (right down to the hakama). He also traced pictures from Kobayashi and Sharp's "Judo", Haislett's "Boxing" and other books. He had a huge martial arts library.
I think the fact that he included drawings of Aikido techniques in his notes means they merited his serious consideration.

Aristeia
07-22-2008, 02:34 PM
If Bruce were still alive I think he'd be a colour commentator on MMA events

DonMagee
07-22-2008, 03:04 PM
If he was alive today, he would be using his one inch punch to escape from his coffin.

I kid! I kid!....

Seriously, if he was alive today I do not feel he would have any more impact on martial arts then Chuck Norris or Steven Segal. Dying at a young age is what made him what he is today.

That is not to say he was not an impressive martial artist. I have never seen him fight, so I can not comment on that. I just think, like most of histories greats, his young death made him a legend.

lifeafter2am
07-22-2008, 03:12 PM
If he was alive today, he would be using his one inch punch to escape from his coffin.

I kid! I kid!....

Seriously, if he was alive today I do not feel he would have any more impact on martial arts then Chuck Norris or Steven Segal. Dying at a young age is what made him what he is today.

While I want to agree with that, I don't know if I could. To me Bruce was almost like O'Sensei, in that he basically created a new martial art from existing ones. Unlike Segal or Norris, who are just examples of good martial artists.

I think that him dying young may have exaggerated his impact, but I still think he would be more impactful than either Segal or Norris.

Of course, this is merely my speculation.

:)

Shany
07-22-2008, 04:42 PM
although Bruce liked Aikido overall, he couldn't bear in mind the fact that someone is devoted to 1 system as a solution to martial ways.

SeiserL
07-22-2008, 04:44 PM
Having studied JKD, I can only guess that Bruce would appreciate the Aikido training that is process/principle oriented especially in application. IMHO, he would not have appreciated the watered down technicians.

Sy Labthavikul
07-22-2008, 05:16 PM
You all of course know that Jeet Kune Do loosely translated means Way of the Intercepting Fist. At my dojo we're always taught to intercept attacks: we need to move first and initiate the interaction, using irimi or tenkan to get into dead angles while using atemi to simultaneously distract attackers, force them to respond to our threat, and also close of lines of attack (borrowed from fencing). This to me is the hardest aspect of aikido: done properly, it looks like you have telepathy and have read your opponents mind. After that, whatever technique you use is almost a secondary consideration. (too bad i suck at both! and technique is always easier and clearer to develop than that oh-so-important intuitive sensitivity)

I think Bruce Lee would approve of the use of atemi coupled with sen and sen sen no sen timing to unbalance opponents. He studied western fencing and added the concept of stop-hits - attacks in preparation, or a counter-attack made after your opponent as committed to the attack but before the attack is fully launched ("beating him to the punch") - to his JKD. I think that aikido at its heart also contains this principle.

I have a feeling Bruce Lee would sneer (in his characteristic way, thumbing his nose contemptuously) at all the politics that seems to be gripping the aikido world, and at some practitioners refusal to experiment with other philosophies and styles of aikido, let alone with other martial traditions.

rob_liberti
07-22-2008, 11:56 PM
I heard Wally Jay was impressed with Bruce's ground skills. If that is true, then that's pretty impressive to me. -Rob

DonMagee
07-23-2008, 04:56 PM
I heard Wally Jay was impressed with Bruce's ground skills. If that is true, then that's pretty impressive to me. -Rob

Did Gene Lebell comment on Bruce's ground skills? Gene is da man in my book. I know he liked Bruce, but that is about it.

eyrie
07-23-2008, 06:29 PM
The late James Coburn was a one-time student of Bruce and Steven Seagal. Here's what he had to say about Bruce and Bruce's view of Aikido [3/4 down the page]:
http://thehollywoodinterview.blogspot.com/2008/02/james-coburn-hollywood-interview.html

lifeafter2am
07-23-2008, 06:33 PM
The late James Coburn was a one-time student of Bruce and Steven Seagal. Here's what he had to say about Bruce and Bruce's view of Aikido [3/4 down the page]:
http://thehollywoodinterview.blogspot.com/2008/02/james-coburn-hollywood-interview.html

For those of you that don't want to read / scroll:

But he had a great sense of humor, or he did until he went to Hong Kong. He came back from Hong Kong one time, and he was always very outspoken about martial arts. "This martial arts in Hong Kong is bullshit," he said, because there was no bodily contact. "Judo good. Ju-jitsu good. Aikido, best. But this other stuff, no good."

rob_liberti
07-23-2008, 07:14 PM
I assume Bruce saw Aikido in the late 60s.

Imagine if that were today. I'm trying to imagine him walking into an aiki-bunny dojo...

Fred Little
07-23-2008, 08:06 PM
I assume Bruce saw Aikido in the late 60s.

Imagine if that were today. I'm trying to imagine him walking into an aiki-bunny dojo...

Kareem Abdul Jabbar studied at NY Aikikai before he studied with Bruce Lee.

KamiKaze_Evolution
07-24-2008, 08:52 AM
I saw ikkyo (ikkajo) drawing at "The Tao of Jeet Kune Do"!

jennifer paige smith
07-24-2008, 10:58 AM
Kareem Abdul Jabbar studied at NY Aikikai before he studied with Bruce Lee.

And they both worked out in Bruce's backyard on the other side of my friends fence in LA. He now teaches San Soo &Tai Qi, I teach Aikido, and we work out dynamic lessons that we offer to our collective students.


He tells me about watching Bruce workout with all of these tennis balls hanging from a tree by strings. He would zing em with his hands and feet in these incredibly fast patterns. And then Kareem would show up, driving a tiny sportscar that his head towered out of (imagine the hair!!!!!!).He would then work out with Bruce using the same
tennis ball technique. What a picture.

The story goes on and the arts continue to evolve.
And I'm a big name dropper.LOL.

Bob Blackburn
07-24-2008, 11:15 AM
And they both worked out in Bruce's backyard on the other side of my friends fence in LA. He now teaches San Soo &Tai Qi, I teach Aikido, and we work out dynamic lessons that we offer to our collective students.

He tells me about watching Bruce workout with all of these tennis balls hanging from a tree by strings. He would zing em with his hands and feet in these incredibly fast patterns. And then Kareem would show up, driving a tiny sportscar that his head towered out of (imagine the hair!!!!!!).He would then work out with Bruce using the same
tennis ball technique. What a picture.

The story goes on and the arts continue to evolve.
And I'm a big name dropper.LOL.

Sounds like a tall story to me. ;)

jennifer paige smith
07-24-2008, 11:17 AM
Sounds like a tall story to me. ;)

Kareem was the tall one.

Lyle Bogin
07-25-2008, 04:35 PM
Who knows. He died so young it was impossible for his technique to fully mature. As he was when he died, I think aikido training would have been another part of the "classical mess" for him. But the concept of "takemusu aiki" may have appealed to him in its presentation of formless but correct movement.

I give this to all young, budding martial artists...his great essay "Liberate Yourself From Classical Karate":

http://www.bruce-lee.ws/article3.html

I think I'll read it for the um-teen millionth time myself.

James Edwards
07-26-2008, 08:14 AM
In one of his books (probably either tao of jkd or art of expressing the human body) there is a picture of bruce lee in his library. In the background there are a couple aikido books on the shelf amidst all the martial arts books. Would love to have a look at this collection :)

Anyway, I'm not sure which book I saw this in but there are Bruce's own notes about different martial arts. If I remember correctly he liked the stance of aikido and the flowing concept. There was also something that he listed as a disadvantage in aikido but I forget what it is. Frequently listed as a disadvantage by him in grappling martial arts like judo and jiujutsu was the lack of biting and groin grabs. :eek:

Thanks for the article Lyle ;) Looks like a good read :D

And I'm also liking what the man said about aikido when comparing it with HK martial arts :rolleyes:

gregg block
07-28-2008, 05:59 PM
I never met Bruce Lee but was very impressed with "The Tao of Jeet Kune Do". This is really just a bunch of his thoughts organised and put into a book.
It's very clear to me from reading his thoughts and philosophy that he was a great martial artist.
Some one who wasn't would never be able to put combat philosophy and truths into words the way he does..
The flip side of it is someone with no combatexperience might not understand what he is talking about in a lot of his writing.
I've never met him or seen him live, but I have no doubt that he was great and probrably close to the ideal we all strive to be.
As far as being put in a class with Segal and Norris. He's way above either. I see why Segal would be mentioned as he was quite awesome in his prime still not Bruce Lee but awesome still the same > Norris - I Dont think so!! IMHO.

Shipley
07-28-2008, 11:50 PM
Nice article Lyle, thanks for posting the link.

Paul

CNYMike
08-02-2008, 08:57 PM
Greetings to all teachers,students and friends.let me start by saying if i offend anyone here,i deeply apologize.i know by saying the name of The Honorable Bruce Lee may bring back some sad or painful memories.but i still believe in what he was trying to do.and i am a faithful student of his teachings.i just want to ask everyone their views about his life,and if he was still with us today,would he be influenced in aikido in a positive way? please feel free to express your emotions. thanks everyone.

Given that I have been training in Jun Fan Gung Fu/JKD for a little over two years now, I know the least about Bruce Lee of anyone here :o and I'm really reluctant to shoot my mouth off. But one thing that has struck me was the amount of work Bruce Lee did, which I think a lot of people underestimate. They think he did a little of this and little of that and slapped things together willy-nilly. The reality is he did a lot of research and put a lot of time in. For instace, I read that he would watch boxing films for eight hours. In other words he would start at say, 9 AM, maybe break for food and the bathroom, and finish around five PM, watching boxing films. The boxing structures in Jun Fan Gung Fu come out of that. That's a lot of work! "Absorb what is useful; reject what isn't" is an easy idea that's hard to do!

Would Aikido have "influenced" him? I don't know. I think if he were alive today and were pursuing the same methodology he had back in the day, he would have looked at Aikido through that lens and whatever he liked might have found it into his repertoire. What? I don't know. An Aikidoist taking Jun Fan might not even recognize the Aikido elements at first. But they could still be there.

Personally, I sometimes wonder why the Aikido world isn't crawling with JF/JKD people. JKD people embrace cross-training, and the Aikido world (what I've seen of it) welcomes people who either have done or are doing other systems (case in point -- me :D ) And both worlds are crazy about doing seminars -- trust me on that one. One would think they'd fit. Granted, JKD/Kali/Thai Boxing people may be rarer than Aikido, but I wouldn't be surprised if more of them turn up on the tatami over time! But that's just me.

Does that answer your question?

What was your question?

:)

SeiserL
08-03-2008, 05:59 PM
Personally, I sometimes wonder why the Aikido world isn't crawling with JF/JKD people.
Osu,

We tend not to crawl, but we are here.

Rei, Domo.

jennifer paige smith
08-03-2008, 10:57 PM
Osu,

We tend not to crawl, but we are here.

Rei, Domo.

We 'Suwari':D

Lyle Bogin
08-04-2008, 02:08 PM
The first martial arts school I ever attended for more that a day had a JKD sign on it, which made it authentic bruce lee action to my teenage brain. Lesson one, kicked in the face....lesson two, punched in the stones...and so it went until college. My college essay was entitled, "how I can become more like Bruce Lee." (We were supposed to write about a historical figure we wanted to be more like).

When ever I feel the old magic fade, I watch Bruce in action or read his stuff.

Have you ever read this:

http://www.theonion.com/content/opinion/why_was_i_not_informed_about

Brilliant!!!

Tony Wagstaffe
08-05-2008, 04:37 AM
"Be like water my friends"......

CNYMike
08-05-2008, 12:19 PM
Osu,

We tend not to crawl, but we are here.

Rei, Domo.

Oops! :o Sorry. I may not be able to touch my toes, but I can put my foot in my mouth. :o Maybe I should have said "more than there are already"? See my point?