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Old 07-22-2008, 12:09 PM   #1
stevenl
 
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Bruce Lee and Aikido

Greetings to all teachers,students and friends.let me start by saying if i offend anyone here,i deeply apologize.i know by saying the name of The Honorable Bruce Lee may bring back some sad or painful memories.but i still believe in what he was trying to do.and i am a faithful student of his teachings.i just want to ask everyone their views about his life,and if he was still with us today,would he be influenced in aikido in a positive way? please feel free to express your emotions. thanks everyone.
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Old 07-22-2008, 01:13 PM   #2
CitoMaramba
 
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Re: Bruce Lee and Aikido

Some of the drawings in Bruce Lee's notes (which were put together posthumously and published as "The Tao of Jeet Kune Do") are clearly tracings of pictures from Koichi Tohei's early Aikido books (right down to the hakama). He also traced pictures from Kobayashi and Sharp's "Judo", Haislett's "Boxing" and other books. He had a huge martial arts library.
I think the fact that he included drawings of Aikido techniques in his notes means they merited his serious consideration.

Inocencio Maramba, MD, MSc
Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui
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Old 07-22-2008, 01:34 PM   #3
Aristeia
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Re: Bruce Lee and Aikido

If Bruce were still alive I think he'd be a colour commentator on MMA events

"When your only tool is a hammer every problem starts to look like a nail"
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Old 07-22-2008, 02:04 PM   #4
DonMagee
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Re: Bruce Lee and Aikido

If he was alive today, he would be using his one inch punch to escape from his coffin.

I kid! I kid!....

Seriously, if he was alive today I do not feel he would have any more impact on martial arts then Chuck Norris or Steven Segal. Dying at a young age is what made him what he is today.

That is not to say he was not an impressive martial artist. I have never seen him fight, so I can not comment on that. I just think, like most of histories greats, his young death made him a legend.

Last edited by DonMagee : 07-22-2008 at 02:10 PM.

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
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Old 07-22-2008, 02:12 PM   #5
lifeafter2am
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Re: Bruce Lee and Aikido

Quote:
Don Magee wrote: View Post
If he was alive today, he would be using his one inch punch to escape from his coffin.

I kid! I kid!....

Seriously, if he was alive today I do not feel he would have any more impact on martial arts then Chuck Norris or Steven Segal. Dying at a young age is what made him what he is today.
While I want to agree with that, I don't know if I could. To me Bruce was almost like O'Sensei, in that he basically created a new martial art from existing ones. Unlike Segal or Norris, who are just examples of good martial artists.

I think that him dying young may have exaggerated his impact, but I still think he would be more impactful than either Segal or Norris.

Of course, this is merely my speculation.


"The mind is everything. What you think you become." - Siddhattha Gotama Buddha
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Old 07-22-2008, 03:42 PM   #6
Shany
 
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Re: Bruce Lee and Aikido

although Bruce liked Aikido overall, he couldn't bear in mind the fact that someone is devoted to 1 system as a solution to martial ways.
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Old 07-22-2008, 03:44 PM   #7
SeiserL
 
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Re: Bruce Lee and Aikido

Having studied JKD, I can only guess that Bruce would appreciate the Aikido training that is process/principle oriented especially in application. IMHO, he would not have appreciated the watered down technicians.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 07-22-2008, 04:16 PM   #8
Sy Labthavikul
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Re: Bruce Lee and Aikido

You all of course know that Jeet Kune Do loosely translated means Way of the Intercepting Fist. At my dojo we're always taught to intercept attacks: we need to move first and initiate the interaction, using irimi or tenkan to get into dead angles while using atemi to simultaneously distract attackers, force them to respond to our threat, and also close of lines of attack (borrowed from fencing). This to me is the hardest aspect of aikido: done properly, it looks like you have telepathy and have read your opponents mind. After that, whatever technique you use is almost a secondary consideration. (too bad i suck at both! and technique is always easier and clearer to develop than that oh-so-important intuitive sensitivity)

I think Bruce Lee would approve of the use of atemi coupled with sen and sen sen no sen timing to unbalance opponents. He studied western fencing and added the concept of stop-hits - attacks in preparation, or a counter-attack made after your opponent as committed to the attack but before the attack is fully launched ("beating him to the punch") - to his JKD. I think that aikido at its heart also contains this principle.

I have a feeling Bruce Lee would sneer (in his characteristic way, thumbing his nose contemptuously) at all the politics that seems to be gripping the aikido world, and at some practitioners refusal to experiment with other philosophies and styles of aikido, let alone with other martial traditions.


---------------------------------
train as if the tengu will never visit, execute as if they already have
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Old 07-22-2008, 10:56 PM   #9
rob_liberti
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Re: Bruce Lee and Aikido

I heard Wally Jay was impressed with Bruce's ground skills. If that is true, then that's pretty impressive to me. -Rob
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Old 07-23-2008, 03:56 PM   #10
DonMagee
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Re: Bruce Lee and Aikido

Quote:
Rob Liberti wrote: View Post
I heard Wally Jay was impressed with Bruce's ground skills. If that is true, then that's pretty impressive to me. -Rob
Did Gene Lebell comment on Bruce's ground skills? Gene is da man in my book. I know he liked Bruce, but that is about it.

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
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Old 07-23-2008, 05:29 PM   #11
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Re: Bruce Lee and Aikido

The late James Coburn was a one-time student of Bruce and Steven Seagal. Here's what he had to say about Bruce and Bruce's view of Aikido [3/4 down the page]:
http://thehollywoodinterview.blogspo...interview.html

Ignatius
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Old 07-23-2008, 05:33 PM   #12
lifeafter2am
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Re: Bruce Lee and Aikido

Quote:
Ignatius Teo wrote: View Post
The late James Coburn was a one-time student of Bruce and Steven Seagal. Here's what he had to say about Bruce and Bruce's view of Aikido [3/4 down the page]:
http://thehollywoodinterview.blogspo...interview.html
For those of you that don't want to read / scroll:

Quote:
But he had a great sense of humor, or he did until he went to Hong Kong. He came back from Hong Kong one time, and he was always very outspoken about martial arts. "This martial arts in Hong Kong is bullshit," he said, because there was no bodily contact. "Judo good. Ju-jitsu good. Aikido, best. But this other stuff, no good."

"The mind is everything. What you think you become." - Siddhattha Gotama Buddha
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Old 07-23-2008, 06:14 PM   #13
rob_liberti
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Re: Bruce Lee and Aikido

I assume Bruce saw Aikido in the late 60s.

Imagine if that were today. I'm trying to imagine him walking into an aiki-bunny dojo...
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Old 07-23-2008, 07:06 PM   #14
Fred Little
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Re: Bruce Lee and Aikido

Quote:
Rob Liberti wrote: View Post
I assume Bruce saw Aikido in the late 60s.

Imagine if that were today. I'm trying to imagine him walking into an aiki-bunny dojo...
Kareem Abdul Jabbar studied at NY Aikikai before he studied with Bruce Lee.
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Old 07-24-2008, 07:52 AM   #15
KamiKaze_Evolution
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Re: Bruce Lee and Aikido

I saw ikkyo (ikkajo) drawing at "The Tao of Jeet Kune Do"!

KamiKaze
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Old 07-24-2008, 09:58 AM   #16
jennifer paige smith
 
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Re: Bruce Lee and Aikido

Quote:
Fred Little wrote: View Post
Kareem Abdul Jabbar studied at NY Aikikai before he studied with Bruce Lee.
And they both worked out in Bruce's backyard on the other side of my friends fence in LA. He now teaches San Soo &Tai Qi, I teach Aikido, and we work out dynamic lessons that we offer to our collective students.


He tells me about watching Bruce workout with all of these tennis balls hanging from a tree by strings. He would zing em with his hands and feet in these incredibly fast patterns. And then Kareem would show up, driving a tiny sportscar that his head towered out of (imagine the hair!!!!!!).He would then work out with Bruce using the same
tennis ball technique. What a picture.

The story goes on and the arts continue to evolve.
And I'm a big name dropper.LOL.

Last edited by jennifer paige smith : 07-24-2008 at 10:06 AM.

Jennifer Paige Smith
Confluence Aikido Systems
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Old 07-24-2008, 10:15 AM   #17
Bob Blackburn
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Re: Bruce Lee and Aikido

Quote:
Jennifer Smith wrote: View Post
And they both worked out in Bruce's backyard on the other side of my friends fence in LA. He now teaches San Soo &Tai Qi, I teach Aikido, and we work out dynamic lessons that we offer to our collective students.

He tells me about watching Bruce workout with all of these tennis balls hanging from a tree by strings. He would zing em with his hands and feet in these incredibly fast patterns. And then Kareem would show up, driving a tiny sportscar that his head towered out of (imagine the hair!!!!!!).He would then work out with Bruce using the same
tennis ball technique. What a picture.

The story goes on and the arts continue to evolve.
And I'm a big name dropper.LOL.
Sounds like a tall story to me.
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Old 07-24-2008, 10:17 AM   #18
jennifer paige smith
 
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Re: Bruce Lee and Aikido

Quote:
Bob Blackburn wrote: View Post
Sounds like a tall story to me.
Kareem was the tall one.

Jennifer Paige Smith
Confluence Aikido Systems
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Old 07-25-2008, 03:35 PM   #19
Lyle Bogin
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Re: Bruce Lee and Aikido

Who knows. He died so young it was impossible for his technique to fully mature. As he was when he died, I think aikido training would have been another part of the "classical mess" for him. But the concept of "takemusu aiki" may have appealed to him in its presentation of formless but correct movement.

I give this to all young, budding martial artists...his great essay "Liberate Yourself From Classical Karate":

http://www.bruce-lee.ws/article3.html

I think I'll read it for the um-teen millionth time myself.
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Old 07-26-2008, 07:14 AM   #20
James Edwards
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Re: Bruce Lee and Aikido

In one of his books (probably either tao of jkd or art of expressing the human body) there is a picture of bruce lee in his library. In the background there are a couple aikido books on the shelf amidst all the martial arts books. Would love to have a look at this collection

Anyway, I'm not sure which book I saw this in but there are Bruce's own notes about different martial arts. If I remember correctly he liked the stance of aikido and the flowing concept. There was also something that he listed as a disadvantage in aikido but I forget what it is. Frequently listed as a disadvantage by him in grappling martial arts like judo and jiujutsu was the lack of biting and groin grabs.

Thanks for the article Lyle Looks like a good read

And I'm also liking what the man said about aikido when comparing it with HK martial arts
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Old 07-28-2008, 04:59 PM   #21
gregg block
 
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Re: Bruce Lee and Aikido

I never met Bruce Lee but was very impressed with "The Tao of Jeet Kune Do". This is really just a bunch of his thoughts organised and put into a book.
It's very clear to me from reading his thoughts and philosophy that he was a great martial artist.
Some one who wasn't would never be able to put combat philosophy and truths into words the way he does..
The flip side of it is someone with no combatexperience might not understand what he is talking about in a lot of his writing.
I've never met him or seen him live, but I have no doubt that he was great and probrably close to the ideal we all strive to be.
As far as being put in a class with Segal and Norris. He's way above either. I see why Segal would be mentioned as he was quite awesome in his prime still not Bruce Lee but awesome still the same > Norris - I Dont think so!! IMHO.
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Old 07-28-2008, 10:50 PM   #22
Shipley
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Re: Bruce Lee and Aikido

Nice article Lyle, thanks for posting the link.

Paul
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Old 08-02-2008, 07:57 PM   #23
CNYMike
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Re: Bruce Lee and Aikido

Quote:
Steven Longoria wrote: View Post
Greetings to all teachers,students and friends.let me start by saying if i offend anyone here,i deeply apologize.i know by saying the name of The Honorable Bruce Lee may bring back some sad or painful memories.but i still believe in what he was trying to do.and i am a faithful student of his teachings.i just want to ask everyone their views about his life,and if he was still with us today,would he be influenced in aikido in a positive way? please feel free to express your emotions. thanks everyone.
Given that I have been training in Jun Fan Gung Fu/JKD for a little over two years now, I know the least about Bruce Lee of anyone here and I'm really reluctant to shoot my mouth off. But one thing that has struck me was the amount of work Bruce Lee did, which I think a lot of people underestimate. They think he did a little of this and little of that and slapped things together willy-nilly. The reality is he did a lot of research and put a lot of time in. For instace, I read that he would watch boxing films for eight hours. In other words he would start at say, 9 AM, maybe break for food and the bathroom, and finish around five PM, watching boxing films. The boxing structures in Jun Fan Gung Fu come out of that. That's a lot of work! "Absorb what is useful; reject what isn't" is an easy idea that's hard to do!

Would Aikido have "influenced" him? I don't know. I think if he were alive today and were pursuing the same methodology he had back in the day, he would have looked at Aikido through that lens and whatever he liked might have found it into his repertoire. What? I don't know. An Aikidoist taking Jun Fan might not even recognize the Aikido elements at first. But they could still be there.

Personally, I sometimes wonder why the Aikido world isn't crawling with JF/JKD people. JKD people embrace cross-training, and the Aikido world (what I've seen of it) welcomes people who either have done or are doing other systems (case in point -- me ) And both worlds are crazy about doing seminars -- trust me on that one. One would think they'd fit. Granted, JKD/Kali/Thai Boxing people may be rarer than Aikido, but I wouldn't be surprised if more of them turn up on the tatami over time! But that's just me.

Does that answer your question?

What was your question?

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Old 08-03-2008, 04:59 PM   #24
SeiserL
 
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Re: Bruce Lee and Aikido

Quote:
Michael Gallagher wrote: View Post
Personally, I sometimes wonder why the Aikido world isn't crawling with JF/JKD people.
Osu,

We tend not to crawl, but we are here.

Rei, Domo.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 08-03-2008, 09:57 PM   #25
jennifer paige smith
 
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Re: Bruce Lee and Aikido

Quote:
Lynn Seiser wrote: View Post
Osu,

We tend not to crawl, but we are here.

Rei, Domo.
We 'Suwari'

Jennifer Paige Smith
Confluence Aikido Systems
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