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statisticool
07-23-2006, 06:59 PM
I found one. :)

For example, check out 3min 7 sec in Bas Rutten's clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiEsktRiCXo

And compare to the start of this clip featuring Tohei http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FE5jN0rqMtM&mode=related&search=Tohei

eyrie
07-23-2006, 07:17 PM
I don't see any connection. What is it that you think you see?

markwalsh
07-23-2006, 07:32 PM
When I saw the Rutten video I felt deeply disgusted and disturbed. I've seen lots of kinds of violence in my life so I was curious as to why I had such a strong reaction. Some of his techniques weren't so different from the Tohei video that was a real joy to watch, but the contrast in attitude was the crucial thing. The spirit of martial arts as I see it, has nothing to do with ego, brutality and aggressiveness.

I was going to recommend that Aikiwebster avoid it, but I've changed my mind as I now I think it was instructional on two fronts:

1. For checking your emotional reaction to brutality.
2. For seeing the heart (or lack thereof) of antiaikido.

Oh, and know I know how to break someones knee if they insult my wife!!!! :yuck: :) :crazy:

Seriously, thanks for both links.

Nick Pagnucco
07-23-2006, 08:14 PM
I don't see any connection. What is it that you think you see?

I see a similar technique being applied, at least as far as someone grabs your head from behind, you grab their hand & pivot.

aikigirl10
07-23-2006, 08:40 PM
Bas Rutten is just ridiculous. Up until the last couple minutes of the video he looks like a 12 year old that drank a gallon of Mt. Dew and then watched too many karate videos.

It also looks like he fully relys on brute force.

Typical meat-head...

*Paige*

eyrie
07-23-2006, 08:59 PM
Yes, Nicholas, similar but *distinctly* different. Can you see the difference???

Nice observation Paige! All Bas' attackers are smaller in size and weight.... so big man can beat up small guy... nothing new here.

BUT... can anyone see any "holes" in what Bas is doing as "self-defence"??? ;)

rogue_buddha
07-23-2006, 09:32 PM
Wow, a search on aikido on youtube.com returned 591 results. I also found aikido based results for searches on Yamada, Ikeda, Shioda, Chiba and more! Thanks for the heads up on the video clips. Now if I could just find a clip of Gozo Shioda and JFK's bodyguards, that is what I would really like to see. Looks like a lot of good video material to study, compare and contrast. :D

statisticool
07-23-2006, 09:40 PM
I think the Rutten video teaches some pretty irresponsible things to be sure- like assualting someone merely because they want your seat, or shattering someone's knee merely because they called your significant other a name.

I just thought it interesting since it is often heard on MMA fan boards that aikido techniques can't be effective in real life situations, yet you don't hear them saying that about the techniques in Rutten's video, when he uses an aikido technique. Suddenly it is magically effective. :)

Nick Pagnucco
07-23-2006, 09:57 PM
Yes, Nicholas, similar but *distinctly* different. Can you see the difference???

Well, looking at it again, on the technique level, they're rotating in different directions. So Tohei is doing a sankyo, and the other guy is doing something like a shihonage without a bend in the arm.

Deeper down, though, they 'power' the techniques with different things. tohei dips in a path of least resistance, while Rutten seems to be just wrenching the guy's arm with pure torque. Even deeper than that is more internal stuff, I suspect, but I wont pretend I can see that. ;)

One thing I do NOT see in the rutten clip is a sense of 'connection'.

eyrie
07-23-2006, 10:03 PM
Many common techniques are shared in a number of different martial arts, in that the "shapes" are similar, but the manner in which they are applied are quite different.

To be honest, I didn't see any similarities at all. Technically, there were major differences in the way the technique you are talking about in particularly (hair grab from the rear). For starters, Tohei turns inside into sankyo, whilst Bas turns outside for a reverse sankyo - what he calls an armbar. I can think of at least 1 other variation which is standard jujitsu/chin-na stuff.

So "technically" you can't say that is an aikido technique, apart from the fact that Tohei demonstrates what is essentially a common way to release from a rear hair grab. After all, the wrist only bends in so many ways from that position.... ;)

Don_Modesto
07-23-2006, 10:05 PM
Nice observation Paige! All Bas' attackers are smaller in size and weight.... so big man can beat up small guy... nothing new here.

Embarrassing to have to say this, but Rutten has had plenty of attackers bigger than himself. He's a hell of a fighter.

eyrie
07-23-2006, 10:15 PM
I'm sure he has Don... it would have made his video far more convincing if the attackers were..a lot.. bigger. :)

Lots of brute force, very little technique. And what technique there was, was very unconvincing... e.g. why go for the groin when the femoral nerve is exposed and closer? ;)

Chris Birke
07-23-2006, 10:30 PM
Bas is hilarious. He doesn't take this seriously. He also absolutely knows what he's doing. Three places this discussion has gone wrong.

Witness his defense against the drunken monkey technique : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lINETRXEAI&search=

and realise how off base your critique is.

This self defense video might have some real technique, but its selling itself on its parody of people who take this stuff dead serious.

The fact that all of you believe he would actually shatter someone's knee for sake of insulting his wife is telling of what other delusions you may harbor.

Chris Birke
07-23-2006, 10:42 PM
Ahh, another parody "self defense" video from bas: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNXRInrSSVU&mode=related&search=
to soldify my point exactly. (and provide amusement to those with a sense of humor)

Upyu
07-24-2006, 12:46 AM
Guys, I'm sure anyone thats worked out with good MMAers knows that those people are at heart, normal people, and as such are seldom actually like that. Bas is selling a product/image, and its a damn funny one at that.

If you want to debate the morality of selling your image as such to impressionable kids that think Matt Hughes is the 1Nd3structible (or whoever the current ufc/pride champion is), that's a different issue ;)

The guy is a business man, pure and simple.

Here's a little food for thought. If you look at it from a certain perspective, Takeda Soukaku was also a business man. Maybe of the worse kind, considering the fact the guy went around the country "teaching" people as an excuse to see if his techniques would actually work. (And he charged the equivalent of 2000$ a seminar, without teaching jack to anyone).
"Yes, grab my wrist like that"
<snap>
"You're too weak, you need to train your body more"
:D

eyrie
07-24-2006, 12:58 AM
My bad, I had no contextual background of the intent of the video. If it was indeed a parody, then it was damn funny....

statisticool
07-24-2006, 07:13 AM
This self defense video might have some real technique, but its selling itself on its parody of people who take this stuff dead serious.


Those other videos you linked to are obvious parody, and the content isn't sold on any instructional DVD, as far as I can tell.

The clip I linked to is apparently excerpts from

http://www.basrutten.tv/product_info.php?pName=lethal-street-fighting-dvd&cName=dvds

which is not marketed as comedy, but as an instructional DVD.

DonMagee
07-24-2006, 07:40 AM
I love that video! It changed the way I look at self defense.

BANG! BANG! BANG!

GLWeeks
07-24-2006, 08:29 AM
Wow...

I had just spoken with someone this weekend about getting this video and now I find a thread on it....

I have followed his career for quite some time now and he is a legend:

Muay Thai (The Netherlands - pre 1993)
Wins: 14 KOs
Entire Muay Thai career record: 14-1

Mixed Martial Arts (Japan and USA - 1993 to 2006)
Wins: 12 (T)KOs - 13 Submission - 3 Decisions
Losses: 3 Submission - 1 Decision
Entire MMA career record: 28-4-1

Do I care to ever study MMA full time? Nope, my focus is on my Aikido... Do I think he has something to teach? Of course.... I also enjoy his straight forward approch in teaching with a little Bas attitude.

It is very Aiki? Heck no, but it is not an Aiki world we live in and I am sure I will not see it so in my life time... I usually just leave myself open to new things that seem effective and add them into my 'toolbox'...

Thanks,

Guy

Mark Freeman
07-24-2006, 09:06 AM
After watching both clips, and reading the reactions on the thread I am left feeling glad that I study aikido.

If the clip was meant to be a parody ( if you follow the link Jason provides it seems that it is not as it is marketed as instructional ), then I don't think it worked, beacause if you laughed at it because you 'think' it is a parody, and then you find out it is meant to be 'serious', what does that say about it?

I'm not bringing the guys fighting abilities into question, but from an aikido viewpoint, his technique was sloppy, and the demo uke's provided nothing. If he was demonstrating aikido, then I would have seen parody.

His sole intention is to do the maximum damage, aikido aims to do the minimum, big difference.

I'm right with Mark Walsh on this one,

regards,

Mark

Dazzler
07-24-2006, 09:59 AM
Hmmm

Saying Bas Ruttens techique is sloppy is a bit like Nick Faldo saying Tiger Woods swing is all wrong!

It may not be good aikido, it may lack connection...do you think Bas gives a monkeys? As long as it works !

Talk is very cheap.

FWIW

D

DonMagee
07-24-2006, 10:31 AM
How can you not learn something from this video. I mean he advocates cutting the eyes out of your opponenet because he said your girlfriend was hot.

GLWeeks
07-24-2006, 10:36 AM
Hmmm

Saying Bas Ruttens techique is sloppy is a bit like Nick Faldo saying Tiger Woods swing is all wrong!

It may not be good aikido, it may lack connection...do you think Bas gives a monkeys? As long as it works !

Talk is very cheap.

FWIW

D

Word.

Talon
07-24-2006, 11:21 AM
I must say that I was entertained by the Bas videos. They were hillarious. The techniques he shows look effective. Brutal but effective. What I find hillarious is his presentation, the way he presents is priceless.

Mark Freeman
07-24-2006, 11:35 AM
Hmmm

Saying Bas Ruttens techique is sloppy is a bit like Nick Faldo saying Tiger Woods swing is all wrong!

It may not be good aikido, it may lack connection...do you think Bas gives a monkeys? As long as it works !

Talk is very cheap.

FWIW

D

Talk is very cheap Daren, I know. I did say that from an aikido perspective. I know what he is doing is effective, I'm sure he doesn't give a monkey's about what I think, but you agree that it is not good aikido.

I'm interested in aikido and the effective practice and use of it. The philisophy is integral to the practice. This Bas guy peddles winning through destruction, IMO what he does has no aikido in it. I haven't got the slightest interest in learning what he has to offer, so you could say that I don't give a monkey's about him or his DVD selling empire.

regards,

Mark

Avery Jenkins
07-24-2006, 11:49 AM
It's Bar Brawling 101, which is the introductory course to Budweiser-do.

What a hoot!

Talon
07-24-2006, 12:39 PM
I wonder what Matt Thornton would say about Bas's instructional video. There doesn't seem to be much alive training going on there. Maybe Matt should Challange Bas to "Roll" with him to see if his training is effective... lol...

Upyu
07-24-2006, 01:44 PM
I wonder what Matt Thornton would say about Bas's instructional video. There doesn't seem to be much alive training going on there. Maybe Matt should Challange Bas to "Roll" with him to see if his training is effective... lol...

LMAO
nice one :D

DonMagee
07-24-2006, 03:17 PM
I wonder what Matt Thornton would say about Bas's instructional video. There doesn't seem to be much alive training going on there. Maybe Matt should Challange Bas to "Roll" with him to see if his training is effective... lol...

See you confuse how Bas trains, and how Bas wants you to train. See Bas wants you to think you know how to fight so Bas can kill you.

BANG! BANG! BANG!

Keith R Lee
07-24-2006, 03:22 PM
Haha. It's hilarious how many people took this video seriously, and are ignorant of Bas. Classic.

Budd
07-24-2006, 03:34 PM
This reminds me of the time in Pancrase when El Guapo-san (Bas) and Frank Shamrock were both trying to leg lock each other -- while at the same time smiling and delivering open-handed slaps.

Looked like the MMA version of patticake . . .

Talon
07-24-2006, 04:49 PM
Bang Bang Bang...followed by Dang ana Dang ana Dang and finally a Dong on the head!!! Now thats what I call a combination.... I really have to keep watching that vid. Its so entertaining....

statisticool
07-24-2006, 05:30 PM
It may not be good aikido, it may lack connection...do you think Bas gives a monkeys? As long as it works !


Stabbing someone with a receipt holder (which is on the DVD, not shown in the clips linked to) is not a good idea. It "works", in the sense of stopping somebody, but how it is defense is a mystery. It seems like killing a fly with an elephant gun.

statisticool
07-24-2006, 05:32 PM
It's hilarious how many people took this video seriously, and are ignorant of Bas. Classic.

If you have evidence to show this DVD is not marketed as instructional, feel free to present it. :)

aikigirl10
07-24-2006, 06:02 PM
Haha. It's hilarious how many people took this video seriously, and are ignorant of Bas. Classic.

Haha. It's hilarious how many people actually like this douche bag. Typical i guess.

Ignorant of Bas? I prefer it that way, thanks.

Aristeia
07-24-2006, 06:51 PM
Bas is the shiznit.

JamesDavid
07-24-2006, 07:56 PM
This guy is the Steve Erwin of martial arts. you have to love his enthusiasm. .....is that Yoshinkan aikido he is doing ;)

Aristeia
07-24-2006, 08:05 PM
Steve Irwin does BJJ :-)

gdandscompserv
07-24-2006, 08:13 PM
Bang bada boom!
KAPOW!
SPLAT!
SMASH!
Where's Batman?
:D

Talon
07-24-2006, 08:44 PM
Hey all of those sound effects are probably Bas's specific Kiai shouts. Heck it works for him, I'll try it next class and see if that type of Kiai works for me... lol Bang Bang Bang...Dang ana Dang ana Dang.... I'm sure everyone including sensei will be impressed..... lol

DonMagee
07-24-2006, 10:15 PM
Just fear Bas's no touch knock out. It usually shows up after a long night at the bar.

Chris Birke
07-24-2006, 11:44 PM
Here's a clip from a serious instructional. See if you can tell the difference.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KNspKXxhkw&search=bas%20rutten%20



Next, Bas talks about mixed martial arts, the indie movie short he costarred in, and narrates a mma demo given by two judo olympiads (in case you need jto see japanese people in pajamas to feel respectable about martial arts).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5QFOZc8AaM&search=rutten

statisticool
07-25-2006, 04:54 AM
Yes that is a clip from an instructional too.

Here is the description for the Lethal Street Fighting DVD:

"In this dynamic DVD World “Ultimate Fighting Champion” and 3Xs “King Of Pancrase”, Bas Rutten personally teaches you his “Lethal Street Fighting” Self Defense System designed to immediately give you the skills and combat techniques needed to win any street fight! Winner of over 200 deadly street fights and numerous No-Holds-Barred Titles Rutten knows what he is talking about when it comes to reality combat. All techniques taught in this exciting DVD have been battle tested by Rutten in the ring and on the street so you know they will work. Start learning the World’s most effective Street Fighting Self Defense System by ordering Bas Rutten’s, “Lethal Street Fighting” training DVD Today! Over 1 Hour 45 Min of non-stop action! What you learn today may save your life tomorrow. Note: Contains extreme fighting violence-must be 18 years old to view this show. "

Doesn't sound like it is marketed as a comedy.

Mark Freeman
07-25-2006, 05:58 AM
Winner of over 200 deadly street fights

Marketing nonsense, if they were deadly, someone would end up dead, and as this Bas chap is still around, can we safely assume that he killed people? No of course not. Deadly is more dramatic than 'someone is going to get hurt'.

Parting fools from their money is not that difficult.

regards,

Mark

DonMagee
07-25-2006, 07:21 AM
Marketing nonsense, if they were deadly, someone would end up dead, and as this Bas chap is still around, can we safely assume that he killed people? No of course not. Deadly is more dramatic than 'someone is going to get hurt'.

Parting fools from their money is not that difficult.

regards,

Mark

Maybe that is part of the joke.

Mark Freeman
07-25-2006, 03:10 PM
Maybe that is part of the joke.


if so then :D if not then :(

Upyu
07-25-2006, 05:07 PM
"In this dynamic DVD World "Ultimate Fighting Champion" and 3Xs "King Of Pancrase", Bas Rutten personally teaches you his "Lethal Street Fighting" Self Defense System designed to immediately give you the skills and combat techniques needed to win any street fight! Winner of over 200 deadly street fights and numerous No-Holds-Barred Titles Rutten knows what he is talking about when it comes to reality combat. All techniques taught in this exciting DVD have been battle tested by Rutten in the ring and on the street so you know they will work. Start learning the World's most effective Street Fighting Self Defense System by ordering Bas Rutten's, "Lethal Street Fighting" training DVD Today! Over 1 Hour 45 Min of non-stop action! What you learn today may save your life tomorrow. Note: Contains extreme fighting violence-must be 18 years old to view this show. "



LMAO
That was almost as entertaining as TSRs marketing speals. :D
Am I the only one that found that entertaining?
Dang ada Dang ada Dang ada DANG!
rofl

statisticool
07-25-2006, 06:35 PM
I posted

http://www.basrutten.tv/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7537#7537

to see if it is an instructional DVD or a parody.

Talon
08-02-2006, 11:11 AM
I got the whole DVD (found a torrent). Its definitelly instructional and definitelly entertaining. to my surprise. Bas actually shows a tagai tedori kotemawashi (nikio) from a wrist grab. the video is definitelly entertaining and most of the techniques it covers look quite effective.