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Old 04-23-2011, 12:10 PM   #104
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Dojo: Aikido of Fresno
Location: Fresno , CA
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,645
Re: Tanto Practice - Is true Aikido effective for disarming?

Dan Harden wrote: View Post
I don't know about you but I have met many men who knew more than me. and yes...I trusted them and learned from them, sometimes in areas I did not believe were going to work, and here is a key point: I could not make what they were teaching me work in freestyle fighting (at first) so I simply HAD to trust them in order to move forward. At one point I quit because I could not make it work. I later went back. So the key was indeed, trust.
I'm glad I did because I saved myself from turning into a strength based grappler, and from three different men; from wasting my time in the wrong direction with weapons.
Doesn't sound much different then my story, however the ending is different.

Reinvention V stumbling in the dark trying to find better solutions.
This is an interesting dilema I see repeated by all of us; young and old in martial arts. We/ they are convinced that testing leads to a knowledge of what works.
Yes, this is how we learn.

Problem is what they are really testing is the limits of what they know and what they can make work. In many respects they are re-inventing the wheel while earnestly looking for solutions that many times have already been dicovered, codified, refined and vetted...through real combat in armed situations by many other men.
Everyone here studies a martial art. Which means that all of us are hoping to gain from the insight of others. However, we can't understand what they are doing, or getting at until we ourselves have those experiences. "Stumbling in the dark" is all any of us can really do, it part of learning. Using your own analogy with Dan Severn v.s. Gracie, Dan didn't know what he didn't know until he experienced it. This is what I was getting at with "trust", Dan Severn trusted that he knew most of what grappling was about until he experienced Gracie.

Now we could go on all day about this, but basically, it's up to the person to find for themselves what they want to do. The OP could have trusted what his Aikido teacher told him, and just believed that Aikido worked well at disarming. He did not, so he asked others. As one of the "others" who were generally asked, I said:
Chris Hein wrote: View Post
Aikido contains all of the tools you'll ever need to take something out of some ones hand. Ikkyo nikyo, sankyo, yonkyo, gokyo, rokyo, and kotegaeshi are the very foundation of disarms. They are universal to all weapon taking systems, although they have different names in different systems.

Now using them in a high pressure situation is another story. Aikido as a system provides the information you need, however you must train in high stress, unknown, freeform situations in order to learn to use them. This is however, true of any system.
Now back to you:
I propose that
a. They could have saved a shitload of time
b. They could have jumped light years ahead with new experimentation based on superior information leading to more sound conclusions from their very real future experimentation.
People do like to forge their own way through the weeds....
Instead of taking a well worn path
Oh well..
I think we both agree with "a", however I would add the caveat, even with the knowledge gained from others, you must experience it yourself.

Now with "b", that is only true if the information was good, we don't know if the information is good without experimentation. If you practice with bad information for many years, you won't get very far.

"people do like to forge their own path" this is your way as well as mine. You are blazing your own trails all the time. It's not the path I would take, but best of luck to you.

Well, I am quite sure from our discussions in the past, that our experiences in training and learning are from very different sources of information.
I think that might be a fair conclusion.

But, interestingly, I have not gleaned the same results and opinions as you, and yet oddly enough we are both going at it with and without armor right?
So how do you explain our different results and opinions if all testing is supposed to arrive at the same conclusions.... of what works?
I'm scratching my head over this one myself there Dan. Doesn't seem right does it...

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