Thread: Shihonage Ukemi
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Old 08-08-2010, 08:38 AM   #71
Carsten Möllering
 
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Re: Shihonage Ukemi

Hi
Quote:
Rabih Shanshiry wrote: View Post
Aikido ... is about cooperative training. It is not sparring ...
Hm, what do you mean by "cooperative"? Depending on the skill-level of tori and uke, aikido is about not being thrown, about hindering, resisting and countering, about making it difficult for shite, to do the technique.

This is not sparring, and this is still kata. But even when doing kata from a certain level on it is possible that it comes to uke throwing nage and not the other way round.

We still call this "cooperative". Do you?

Quote:
Shi'te signals what attack he wants, where he wants it, and uke delivers it as ordered.
No. (This sounds a little "obedient"?)
The teacher signals to shite and uke the settings of their practice. He tells both of them what to do.
And within this setting uke delivers his attack as best, as he can. (Depending on the level of shite.)

Quote:
These are not real attacks - they are overextended punches or dagger thrusts, ritualized tegetana strikes, scripted grab attempts, etc.
Well, "as best as he can" means: Uke honestly tries to hit shite. Or to grab him in a way so he can't move anymore.
Sure these are no real attacks, but you can do them in a severe, grave way, staying centered, using kime. The way I practice we understand the attacks as links between kata and "real" attacks. They have to provide elements of both "regions".
I don't know how practice and understand the attacks. We train wiht karateka, judoka and practioners of other MA to improve our skills.
But I know dojo, where no attack that hits shite would cause a bruis or hurt.

Quote:
Uke is giving his body to shi'te for shi'te's benefit - whether in training or performance. In many situations, uke willfully places himself in a situations where shi'te could easily and seriously injure uke if he was so inclined. Inherent in that is a sacred trust that shi'te will safeguard his partner.
No.
I'm not giving my body for someones benefit. And sure I never would place myself in a situation where nage can hurt me.
Good ukemi as I or we understand it, on the contrary means, to avoid such situations! We teach the uke from the beginning not to place themselves in such situations.
Shite has to work his technique to get uke there. Uke will try to prevent himself from nage to be able to hurt him.

Quote:
To place the ultimate responsibility for safety on uke within this paradigm is completely illogical.
I didn't use the word or thaught "ultimate". But I said that it is But it is shites responsibility to react and adopt when he realizes that uke can't take the responsibility for himself. No more, no less.

Maybe we have a different understanding? We try to learn to controll uke against his will.

Besides all that:
I think whether you practice the way we do or the way you do: There can allways happen mistakes, misunderstandings ... so huke should allways to be able to take care of himself?

Carsten
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