Re: I'm Leaving Aikido
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Re: I'm Leaving Aikido
Hi everyone
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Yeh i have excellent self control though, the one thing i do have. In the four months, ive been slapped, punched, stubbed with a cigerette and not hit back, just got to the floor and restrained. CCTV in my town is everywhere, all over the clubs i work. I'm very careful of course some people i work with have a different approach. But thats up to them to face the consequences. I have nothing to prove with people. I just want my money and to go home! Quote:
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Id say one month in and feeling i can do something is brilliant for what ten or so classes? aikido im 2 years in and still dont even "feel" like i could do something. Your questions seem more like attacks and i feel ive touched a nerve. Dont take it personal. You're probably much much better at learning Aikido then i was. Im just sayin how i feel about it and why im choosing another art to try. Quote:
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As for not being in real life altercations as i said i have been doing the doors five nights a week for a good few months. I wont say where but its not hard to find out right? Anyone who knows that town/area of the UK will understand. Every night is a real life altercation. Granted not every night someone squares off in front of me and starts karate kicking me, but its near enough every OTHER night. Seriously, real life altercations is my job so maybe you didnt read / missed that i am actually a doorman i dunno. Strange one that. Touched a nerve again? this is all going horribly wrong. Quote:
As i said before, its like the religion thing, being honest about what you do and admitting there are flaws there you try to ignore or block your mind off from asking, can be a bad bad thing. Almost cult-like. There is an instructor at my dojo who is fantastic and i really admire him. His aikido is fast, swift and i think would be effective in a fair few of the situations i describe. Ive never seen him attacked with anywhere near a real punch etc. But he looks good and his Aikido i think would stand up to brawlers. But he's been doing it for 17 years. Thanks to those who responded with kind words and support anyway. Sometimes we just need to be honest almost as Kevin Leavitt put it and if its not working, find something that will. Life is too short to spend 5 - 10 years learning a self defence art, when you can learn it in 3-6 months, then improve on whats there. The more i look into this, the more Aikido and the whole thing has really dissapointed me in fact. But please please no one take anything personally...of course we love our art i understand that. But it is only that...a martial art. |
Re: I'm Leaving Aikido
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Re: I'm Leaving Aikido
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That Krav looked like most of the Aikido on You Tube. While Aikido may not be for the original poster, I think that the rare more effective Aikido would work as well as most things but in his case, he sounds super dependent on an art to teach him. He's the one who has to bring the goods to the fight. If he couldn't do it with Aikido, I don't think he'll be able to do it with anything else either. There is no superior martial systems - believing in that is his problem. There are just superior martial artists. Best, Jorge |
Re: I'm Leaving Aikido
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Being a Bouncer... Bodyguard... Law Enforcement... or a Member of the Armed Forces means training every day. It means daily Physical Conditioning... Martial Arts... Situational (aka Martial) Awareness...and Task Specfic Training... That is if you value your life and well being...There are Big Musclebound Dudes with Street Sense who can get away with not training everyday because they live the lifestyle to begin with and then there are guys like you who need to learn how to defend themselves... Second...Your Aikido Dojo is screwed up... Sounds more like a McDojo to me... Meaning the "Yudansha" there have diluted the Martial Side of Aikido to the point that it is useless. No worries Dan. I hear you...Most Aikidoka can't fight thier way out of a wet paperbag when they absoulutely need to to do it. I personally think it's a shame they take raw beginners like you off the street and infuse them with all the bad habits and poor Aikido they know and fool them into thinking they have been trained. No worries Dan... You're on the right track. You intuitively know your Sensei's teachings are useless. O'Sensei the founder of Aikido himself warned against depending too much on instruction and "dojo" time. My teacher Micheal Fowler Sensei practices everyday His teachers Shoji Nishio Shihan (when he was alive) and Koji Yoshida Shihan practice everyday. I practice everyday and put my practice up against other Martial Artists when I can to learn from them and help make my practice better. No matter what Dojo you end up walking to into this is the spirit you want to look for in your teachers and in yourself. Practice is serious business and your life depends on it One last hint: When I started my Aikido Journey almost 20 years ago After years in other Martial Arts I used only one criteria that my first Karate Sensei (That man is most arguably the most famous Karatedoka in the USA and those who trained at his Dojo on Artesia Blvd know who I am about about :D ) gave me about evaluating Dojo's. "Can the Head Instructor kick my ass." LOL Again Dan Best of Luck to you. William Hazen |
Re: I'm Leaving Aikido
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See the thread on "exaggeration in Aikido" for some lively discussion on this one. Quote:
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I think there are some exciting applications of Aikido from some of the structure based flinch defence that is around now - like crazy monkey boxing. The question is how many Aikido schools are in a position to start experimenting with this. Experimentation has never been a strong point of traditional martial arts. Quote:
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Re: I'm Leaving Aikido
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http://www.shudokanaikido.com/module...php?storyid=11 "It is important to ask oneself "What is Aikido?" and develop one's own perspective. If you choose not to fight, then why don't you do that? Searching for ultimate answers like that is a necessity in doing Aikido. Aikido is not Kumiuchi (traditional martial techniques for fighting). If Aikido were like techniques for fighting, the way of practice itself would be totally different. But Aikido practice consists of ways to develop ourselves and each other. Of course, it is not saying that being weak is acceptable — through our experience of strength we are not tempted to fight. A person who has true strength does not fight." I still think Aikido is suitable for your job but I also think that you lack a basic understanding of what most martial arts are all about. If I were you, I would go study MMA (I'm serious) but even there, you are going to find out why fighting isn't an answer and you may find that out in the emergency room at a hospital. I would switch jobs and maybe read some books on budo like Niklaus Suino's, Budo Mind and Body or Tevor Leggett's, Spirit of Budo. It will give some meaning to your practice and you might enjoy things more and the need to fight at a door can be put on the back burner. best, Jorge |
Re: I'm Leaving Aikido
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It's also similar because it has alot of uke throwing an attack and then waiting for nage to do their turn as part of the training method. Daniel I suspect that one of the reasons you say aikido isn't working is because when you are in an altercation you don't have the Aikido IA's (immediate actions - entering, stepping off line etc) manifesting themsevles. Given it is those same IA's that people are noticing as being similar in Krav, I'd doubt it will serve you much better... |
Re: I'm Leaving Aikido
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Re: I'm Leaving Aikido
Michael Fooks wrote:
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I will tell you the moment I set foot in Saotome Sensei's dojo in Wash DC/Takoma Park MD, it was very clear. In fact there is a great big sign that outlines the rules, etiquette, and the expectations that one can expect of aikido. In addition, here is an excerpt from the ASU handbook that is given pretty much the very first day. "Aikido training is to challenge yourself, not the other. You will develop confidence by facing your fears, and negative fighting spirit will become creative fighting spirit. The stress and pressure of serious Aikido training brings this spirit to the surface, exposing it so that it can be examined and refined in a controlled atmosphere of respect and mutual study. Discovering your physical limitations will cause you to reflect on the deepest meanings of harmony and conflict, and to strive for a level of consciousness above the selfish ego, closer to a universal consciousness. " So to me it was clear...at least from the dojo's perspective. What was not so clear was my own projections, persceptions, and expectations of aikido. Like many, I tried to make the practice into something that it was not. Funny how we can be told things, shown things, etc....but we filter out things and only hear or see what we want to! Not sure if this is true of every dojo, and person...but I think it happens more oft than not! |
Re: I'm Leaving Aikido
If you are really interested at getting to the core of things, Aikido, BJJ, Krav Maga...no matter...i'd take a look at some of Tony Blauer's stuff. We are using it in the Army to a degree (coupled with other methodologies of training).
Worth watching this one, and a few others if you are interested in true core of reality, and developing good, sound, basic instincts that are tactical. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jk_Ai8qT2s4 |
Re: I'm Leaving Aikido
cheers for that Kevin. I'm sorry to say in my experience alot of dojos aren't as explicit as Saotome's. And even when they are the bigger issue is how do they respond to the question "hey all that self development stuff is great but will it enable me to defend myself".
Re Tony Blauer - read alot about him when he was all over black belt magazine and similar 10-15 years ago and didn't much care for him. Mainly that was based on his excessive use of jargon and acronyms which struck me as an attempt to make the simple sound complex and mystical. Having watched that and other videos linked to it, I'm pretty impressed. It meshes with what I've been thinking as a result of conversations with other coaches and other readings - so thanks for posting it - good stuff! |
Re: I'm Leaving Aikido
The choice is yours and if you feel Aikido is not the right choice for you, well I hope you will find the right path that will give you a full satisfaction.
But I want to give you a suggestion, watch out for what you look at on Youtube. I am sure in these 2 years of Aikido you must have read on forums people criticizing Aikido as Martial Art. Demo video are made to attract people and that is not only true for Aikido, that is true for other Martial Arts too. I will give you a little example with the video you posted here... Many people criticize Aikido for its Randori not being something that can be used in the street (and in a certain degree I agree, no Martial Art in my opinion can keep you alive Vs 3 people together if they well trained). Look at your Krav Maga video, first scene is Vs 3 and just like in many Aikido Demo there is always 1 Uke waiting. Look at the first guy hit by the Krav Maga guy, goes down nice, waits for next hit and goes down again even more. Doesn't that remind a nice video of Aikido where people say Uke go down on their own? Second, in a good commercial for Krav Maga what best than destroying other Martial Arts? Aikidoka for 2 years I guess you can do a Kotegaeshi. Look at the Kotegaeshi made in that video. Nage gives his back to Uke even before the punch "leaves the base" which will help to the eye of a half experienced MAist to make it appear of poor quality and very not so effective. If you think Krav Maga is what is right for you I hope you will try it and stick with it for the rest of your life, hoping that Krav is what really will help you for your job. But please practice it before you decide it is right for you just because of a video. Demo video, of any Martial Art, are made to deliver the principle behind the Art, not to show you what the Art is in its entire. |
Re: I'm Leaving Aikido
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Now...90% of other Dojo's is also an interesting number and the survey you base this statistic on is....Where? Gosh Sensei Fooks... You're not suggesting that Aikido is not technically sound as a Martial Art or a system of "Self Defense" are you? Respectfully, William Hazen |
Re: I'm Leaving Aikido
Just throwing my 2 cents out.
First, as others have mentioned I also don't think Aikido is for everyone. That said, I'd hate anyone to judge a martial art, not matter what variety, by their experience under one teacher. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't still be doing Aikido if I'd started in a lot of the dojos out there. I got lucky and as much as I've learned from my teacher, seeing other teachers regulary opens my mind to whole new aspects of Aikido. People have so many criticisms about Aikido, the way it's taught and practiced, things that aren't included. To most of those I say that they're in the wrong dojo. I can't argue that Aikido doesn't take time to learn. It's a "-do", a way, and it's subtle on a level that you don't even realized without Years (with a big Y) of practice. When people come into my dojo and ask me if Aikido works I tell them "I know it works". Why? Because I've used it in fights and it worked so well that I ended up frustrated at not making my attackers pay in pain for what they tried to do (which was an incredible personal lesson). [on a side note: one perk to using aikido was that the police didn't have any problem deciding which person went to jail and which got to go home] So maybe Aikido is not for you, but after investing two years in something I'd take a look around a bit before leaving Aikido all together to see if maybe you're just not in the right school for your needs. |
Re: I'm Leaving Aikido
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So what you've done is effectively publically called the Luton Aikido Club a mcdojo where the senior grades are diluting the art based on the fact one particular student, with no more than 2 years training hasn't been using it in bouncing work. If it were me I would want more evidence before pointing a finger at a particular school and calling it McDojo.... |
Re: I'm Leaving Aikido
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If you feel the need to get all hot and bothered over that Well then... Remind me to limit the number of drinks I buy you at the pub. It sounds like you may be the kind of bloke that attracts all sorts of undue attention to yourself. Now back to your 90% comment... Unless you want to continue to obfuscate it with another attempt to raise additional straw man arguments. Respectfully, William Hazen |
Re: I'm Leaving Aikido
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Questions like, "what do you see is your major risk?" "give me an example of what you are fearing?" "what do you think the odds are of this happening?" "What constraints and limitations do you see in the environment"? all those type of questions. Usually you find that people have not really thought it through very well, and it is the fear of the "unknown" and vaque "I am in a dark alley with no way out, three guys attacking me, and there is no weapons, or any other thing laying around!" Anyway, you and I have discussed this in that "other thread" many times! :) Well worth a read for those that have not read it. (Does aikido does not work in a real fight.) Tony Blauer. I was not exposed to him 15 years ago, so I cannot say how he was back then. However, we have come a long way in our understanding as a collective community on things martial haven't we! Maybe it took a while to develop his delivery! |
Re: I'm Leaving Aikido
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My point is, that training methods define how useful something is. And that the training methods being shown in that video are no different that 100% of the aikido out there. In fact, I find those training methods lacking, because they rarely included full on sparing. The reason I said that I know what I can do, is because I actually do it on a nightly basis. I know when i'm out classed, what I can do in a given situation. Sparing as given this to me, so has competition. I can almost look at a person now and size up how they will be in a fight. So maybe what you are looking for is what you will not find in krav maga. I know I did not find it there. I found more of the same, static repetition without any sparing. Sure it was faster and we hit each other hard, but we were not alive in our practice. It sounds like you know what you want out of your practice, but not how to judge what you are getting out of your practice. I suggest reading aliveness101.blogspot.com or looking up matt thornton on google video or youtube. Here's a few links to save you time. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScOPEO31vmI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_T0WLoI6pk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fUZ8DmmWC0 He changed my outlook on what I was doing and allowed me to evaluate (and actually find a method for evaluating) my training. Maybe it will help you. The reason why I am critical about krav is because all the krav I have seen is no different then all the aikido I've seen. And I of course find a problem with aikido training. I simply think you are switching one training method, for the exact same training method. Quote:
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Re: I'm Leaving Aikido
Don wrote:
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Looking at the video on Krav, I thought the exact same thing as you Don. "trading one dead form for another". At least at looking at the youtube footage. I saw no aliveness in that video what-so-ever. That is not to say the Krav is wrong, or not useful....just that, as one poster already pointed out, don't rely on video to make your decisions. I have worked with some Israeli military when I was in Germany, and what they do is direct and effective for sure. However, I did not find it any better or worse than anything anyone else was doing. It also highly depends on the instructor to. Anyway...all good advice to consider. |
Re: I'm Leaving Aikido
Well, from what I've seen, krav trained by the military is done in a fairly good manner. Krav trained by us normal folks can be trained well, or trained like crap. It all depends on the school. This is one of the things that always gets me. Sport based martial arts are rarely as hit and miss as rbsd arts. They (sport based) has a well defined goal (to be good at the sport) while training skills that lend themselves to self defense. But rbsd arts tend to be based a lot of speculation (in the private sector) without well defined goals. This can lead to great training, or very poor training.
Buyer beware. |
Re: I'm Leaving Aikido
I agree Don, I think that is because it is hard to define (for civilians) what it is that you would pay money month after month and year after year to sustain a practice based on RBSD!
So you end up with a bunch of "options", kata, techniques that you have to learn and memorize that are progressive in nature and allow you to move up in rank. Not knocking RBSD training, I do it myself from time to time, but I think it needs to be based on a good foundation dealing with position, balance, and center...core practices. Hence why so many of us are pro BJJ, Judo, and other grappling sports. I personally like the "inside/out" approach. That is, you learn to first literally CRAWL and fight from your core on the ground, which teaches you much about center, strength...where and how things work (or don't), then as you get comfortable there, you can progress to further and further distances, weapons and so forth. This is the exact appproach we are using today in the Army. This is not the only way...but I like it and it has done good by me so far. RBSD, or scenario based training is very simple and can really be learned as simple as Tony Blauer puts it...that is why I like his approach to training. If I was spending my hard earned dollars for "down and dirty, i'd spent the couple of thousand that it takes to go through his training and call it a day! or a year for that matter! Ironically what you will find though is that your base practice comes back to things like judo, greco-roman, boxing, aikido, tai chi, bjj...all things that work on developing core abilities. How well these arts work for doing that depends on the teacher, I have seen good teachers in all of them (and bad). |
Re: I'm Leaving Aikido
I still don't practice Aikido yet,(guess what, I'm leaving it till I'm 41!)
but I can see what you're getting at. You might need to use what you've learned one day, though, in your job. You might meet someone who is so dangerous in reputation that it would be unwise to hurt him badly. Then you would use Aikido. I'm going to mix it in with a bit of Judo,Hapkido and boxing when I do it. Whenever that is. |
Re: I'm Leaving Aikido
Seems to me that effectiveness has more to do with the martial artist, and less with the martial art. Aikido is just another great tool. A hammer sucks at driving screws, but you can't beat it for pounding nails (...except for a nail gun...no, wait, forget I said that, i don't want to go there:D ).
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Re: I'm Leaving Aikido
In my humble opinion, aikido is meant for dealing with people that we don't want to hurt. It's great for dealing with Grandpa when he's off his meds and gets violent. It's great for dealing with Uncle Larry when he's drunk. It's great for dealing with a sixteen year old kid who hasn't seen enough injury and death to know how stupid his actions are. With enough practice, aikido gets both parties home alive without injury.
In my albeit limited experience, aikido sensei ask us not to do everything we've been doing all our lives. I knew how to slap the dogs**t out of somebody long before my first tae kwon do class, but I had to work really hard for a long time to learn how to enter without fear. |
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