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siwilson
06-27-2005, 01:55 PM
Yudansha is 2nd Dan up, or have I been confussed all these years?

Steven Tame
06-27-2005, 02:40 PM
Actually it is from shodan. I know a bit about Japanese so let me try and explain it. If it was written in kanji 有段者 Sorry if you can't see Japanese font but basically there are 3 kanjis. The first one is read "yuu" and means "there is" / "have" The 2nd kanji is for "dan" which you already know the meaning of and the 3rd kanji is read "sha" and means person. So translated a yuudansha is a person who has a dan grade.

siwilson
06-27-2005, 04:17 PM
Which is what I used to think, but I have been told the contrary for along time. Like when I turned 16, I was told a young adult was not 16, but 17!!!!!!

Many still say Yudansha is NiDan up!

Aristeia
06-27-2005, 04:41 PM
I've never heard Yudansha used to refer to anything other than, any blackbelt grade, including Shodan. As opposed to mudansha who are those below blackbelt.

akiy
06-27-2005, 05:19 PM
I've never heard Yudansha used to refer to anything other than, any blackbelt grade, including Shodan.
Likewise; I've never heard about this exception that a shodan ranked person is not yudansha. It does't make sense linguistically nor does it agree with my experiences (eg receiving a "yudansha passport" from Aikikai hombu dojo upon reaching shodan).

-- Jun

intersimi
07-19-2005, 03:55 AM
Similar to what Steven has said, this is my understanding of Yudansha:

Yu means "have"
Dan means "Grade"
Sha is a term used for a group of people

So basically it means groups of people who have a grade.

Mudansha is the opposite, 'group of people without a grade'.

If you look at Kendo and use them as an example, there are no grades except Dan grades. But typically they will grade you a Kyu grade so that you can see progress, but there are no belts in Kendo.

Bunzel
07-19-2005, 06:08 AM
Maybe someone confused Kodansha and Yudansha.
Kodansha meaning those with high dan grades and Yudansha meaning anyone holding a dan grade.

- Jan

intersimi
07-19-2005, 06:45 AM
I thought 'ko' meant minor or lesser? 'O' meaning greater?

To explain my point:

'ko-ouchi gari' - 'small inner reap'
'O-uchi Gari' - 'large inner reap'

Also you have:

'kote gaeshi'

'ko' meaning minor, and 'te' meaning hand combined to make 'minor hand' or wrist.

This may just be me showing my ignorance however :confused:

Peter Goldsbury
07-19-2005, 07:21 AM
I thought 'ko' meant minor or lesser? 'O' meaning greater?

To explain my point:

'ko-ouchi gari' - 'small inner reap'
'O-uchi Gari' - 'large inner reap'

Also you have:

'kote gaeshi'

'ko' meaning minor, and 'te' meaning hand combined to make 'minor hand' or wrist.

This may just be me showing my ignorance however :confused:

There are 270 homomyms for KO (long o), one of which means high. Obviously, not all of these can go with '-dansha' to make up a meaningful word. Koudansha will work, but if you use this term out of context with the average Japanese, they will probably think you mean the famous publishing house. Dan also means stairs, columns, paragraphs, a unit of cloth and a unit of land. However, fudangi (dan is the same character as in yudansha) are ordinary everyday clothes.

So yudansha is a possessor of rank and this obviously includes the first rank shodan (= beginning rank).

Best regards,

intersimi
07-19-2005, 07:29 AM
Thanks Peter, that does actually make sense. I was relying purely on my Japanese knowledge from Aikido/Judo etc.

You might be able to anser this one also. Does the 'sha' in yudansha mean group or individual?

Peter Goldsbury
07-19-2005, 08:35 AM
Thanks Peter, that does actually make sense. I was relying purely on my Japanese knowledge from Aikido/Judo etc.

You might be able to anser this one also. Does the 'sha' in yudansha mean group or individual?

It could mean either, since Japanese does not have plurals.

Bunzel
07-19-2005, 08:37 AM
Hi Steven

Yes, as Peter Goldsbury nicely explained then "ko", or more properly transcribed "kou" in koudansha is not the same, as "ko" in ko-uchi-gari. From the context or from the kanji will you see the difference :-)

Brgds Jan

intersimi
07-20-2005, 02:04 PM
Hopefully the Japanes lessons I will start taking in September will pay off then :)

James Young
07-20-2005, 03:29 PM
Yeah, leave it to the Japanese to have an on-yomi of the character meaning high or tall to be ko with a long o and then also have a kun-yomi of the character meaning small be just ko. It can be confusing, especially when writing it out in english or romaji; surely with all the multiple homonyms in Japanese, the use of kanji will continue to remain essential.