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BC
06-22-2000, 01:46 PM
It was recently pointed out to me that it was only proper to refer to someone as an aikidoka if that person is a professional aikido instructor, and that an aikido practioner/student should be referred to as an aikidoist. I'm curious is anyone is familiar with this usage, or has other thoughts on the proper use of the terminology?

Nick
06-30-2000, 02:59 PM
to the best of my knowledge, Aikidoka is the Japanese way of saying it- Aikidoist is the American way of saying it.

I called myself a karateka when I was a gokyu, so I dunno-

-Nick

Chuck Clark
06-30-2000, 08:15 PM
I think the "ka" is used more in the west now for anyone who practices.

I have always understood that in the "old days" it was reserved for the equivilant of about sandan and above. In other words, a "serious" practitioner.

akiy
06-30-2000, 11:04 PM
In the cases in which I've heard the suffix "ka" used in everyday Japanese speech, it more pointed to someone who did the thing as a profession. For example, a politician is a "seijika."

However, if someone answered that they were an aikidoka or a judoka, I don't think that the person hearing this would immediately place this person as an aikido or judo instructor but that the person was a serious practitioner (as Chuck said) in the art.

My gut feeling from what I know about the language is that the person must basically consider the art to be his or her primary focus in life...

-- Jun

TONI
07-01-2000, 07:13 AM
As far as I know, it is just a matter of
language;Aikidoka is the Japanese way of calling an Aikido performer.

In Spain we say Karateka, Judoka...so
why not say Aikidoka?

Of course my Knowledge of English language it's not so deep to know how should it be for English-speakers.

Anyway, is it SO important to lose time in discussions? Or is just better to focus in the practise whatever are we called?

Best regards.

Chuck Clark
07-01-2000, 07:24 AM
Japanese is the universally accepted technical language of budo practice. If we do not understand the usage properly, as the art continues to spread, we'll all eventually come up with different meanings.

If we really understand the original meanings and can transmit that...then I agree it doesn't make any difference what terms you use.

Nick
07-01-2000, 12:14 PM
I personally think more Japanese should be used when teaching- I know a karateka who can count to two in Japanese because that's all their school requires...

-Nick

AikiTom
07-02-2000, 04:45 PM
I think either one is fine. We use a great deal of Japanese in our dojo, and actually don't use either one very much!
Although, aikido began in Japan, I think as time goes on we will see that it is not culture-specific. As a matter of fact, that helps its acceptance and spread because it embodies principles that are desirable in virtually all societies.
As the art continues to evolve, it may well be the U.S. that becomes the dominant country for aikido. I've not been to Japan, but I would guess that there are as many or more excellent instructors in this country, whether of Japanese origin or U.S. birth. I also think the national character of the U.S. which is to question, experiment, innovate may do much more for the future of aikido because of the pressure to fit in and harmonize in Japan. I mean no disrespect, and merely have in mind the model of the electronics industry for example where the ideas for new products started here and the products were built in Japan.
As Dennis Miller says, "But then I could be wrong." :) Have an aiki day!

Nick
07-02-2000, 04:50 PM
I hope that Japan remains the martial arts capital of the eastern world... if the US usurped that like they do almost everything else, there wouldn't be much left of interest about the country, except perhaps the cars and Playstation 2 :). I hope Japan can keep their martial heritage, because that's so much of what their country is about.

-Nick

AikiTom
07-02-2000, 09:49 PM
I think they have a strong martial heritage, but I don't think the modern country is much about it. I think many average Japanese don't have much more than a cursory knowledge of martial arts or the terminology from what I've read.

Nick
07-03-2000, 09:17 AM
I read this somewhere:

In japan, they are exposed to martial art slike we are to sports. They play 2 or 3, and reaching shodan in Japan does not confer anything, only that you have chosen to study this art diligently.

-Nick

akiy
07-03-2000, 09:55 AM
I agree with AikiTom on this point, actually. It sounds like Nick has some romanticized notions about my "fair" country. Most "modern" Japanse people I met when I was doing research there at a university in Tokyo were a lot more interested in sports like rugby and tennis. When I went back a few years back and told some of them that I was going to Aikikai Hombu Dojo to train, they made "karate chop" hand motions in indicating what they knew about the art -- hardly anything.

You're right that pretty much anyone in a university club or such can attain shodan in one year and that it doesn't mean much. I think that people outside of Japan have placed way too much fanfare in people's getting a black belt as though it implied mastery...

-- Jun

AikiTom
07-04-2000, 03:19 PM
akiy wrote:
I agree with AikiTom on this point, actually. It sounds like Nick has some romanticized notions about my "fair" country. Most "modern" Japanse people I met when I was doing research there at a university in Tokyo were a lot more interested in sports like rugby and tennis. When I went back a few years back and told some of them that I was going to Aikikai Hombu Dojo to train, they made "karate chop" hand motions in indicating what they knew about the art -- hardly anything.

-- Jun

Was tooling around the Aikido Journal threads and found this:

http://www.aikidojournal.com/ubb/Forum9/HTML/000148.html

Reinforces Jun's comments pretty well :)

dave
07-11-2000, 05:49 PM
Chuck Clark wrote:
Japanese is the universally accepted technical language of budo practice. If we do not understand the usage properly, as the art continues to spread, we'll all eventually come up with different meanings.



thats a great point chuck,Maybe that should be applied for all words and concepts.

Chuck Clark
07-12-2000, 12:26 AM
[/B][/QUOTE]Maybe that should be applied for all words and concepts.[/B][/QUOTE]

That phrase ... "that should be ..." sure sounds nice. We usually use it when we want others to do something or when we know what we ought to do but haven't and add the word "but"...

Things never work out the way they "should!"

There "should be" a special enforcement brigade to "make sure" that all of the "should haves and ought to bes" get carried out!

You all let me know when this is about to happen so I can vacate the premisis.

[:-)]





[Edited by Chuck Clark on July 12, 2000 at 12:28am]

Nick
07-13-2000, 11:05 PM
Jun-san:

no offense was intended. I just read it somewhere and thought it might have had some truth. I guess not.

I apologize again-

-Nick

akiy
07-13-2000, 11:12 PM
Nick wrote:
no offense was intended. I just read it somewhere and thought it might have had some truth. I guess not.
No offense taken, of course. I think it's a common misconception. What you say may have been true, say, thirty or forty years ago, but I can't say I've seen what you wrote in Japan too often these days...

-- Jun