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morex
07-10-2002, 04:56 PM
Hello all. I need to vent this and maybe a little advise would be perfect. So this is a large post, so you’d better get a cup of coffee!

I train Nishio Sensei Aikido in Mexico City and my direct Sensei is Izumi Tauchi. I really respect my teacher and she has helped me to change my life into something I never expected to see. I’ve training for more than 2 years and I am really happy.

So my Aikido club has 2 dojo here in the city. But neither of them are owned by Sensei. We actually rent the space so we can train. Sensei only teaches in one of the dojo… the one where I train 3 nights a week.

The other night I went to the other dojo because my exam for 2nd Kyu is approaching. And there is this guy (1st Kyu) who has the most terrible attitude to aikido and life. You know, he is the Steve Seagal meets Jackie Chan kind of dude. In other words he is not polite nor a good teacher. He just wants to learn how to kill or use Aikido to hurt people. And the worst thing is that he tends to experiment and “create’ his own techniques when he hasn’t mastered Aikido or any other martial art.

So we trained Kokyu Nage and he started experimenting. Then when he tried to show off with his mates, he mixed a Judo technique with Kokyu Nage. The result: He couldn’t handle my weight (oh yes I am heavier than him) and threw me to the mat. I landed with all mi weight on my left ankle and then he fell on top of me making my injury worst.

I have to tell you I never had shouted in pain in my life. I got really scared because I couldn’t feel or move my foot for 30 seconds. Then the pain got stronger but I could move my foot. I didn’t brake anything, but it was all sore and inflamated.

I was laying on the floor and in pain and this guy just turned his back and didn’t even helped me to stand up. That was all for me that night and I went home. I was all sore but I was really angry at that guy. He invented a move on the fly, he had injured me and he didn’t care about uke (me). One other thing: it wasn’t the first time it happened. Other uke had been injured by this person but they never told Sensei about it. So I was so mad that I call Sensei and told her everything.

She got mad as well not only because my injury but because he was teaching a non Nishio Sensei Aikido. So the next class Sensei talked to him and she was so furious that she suspended his Shodan exam and she also got mad to the Senpai in charge of that dojo. So now two person hate me.

Last night I returned to train. It was very hard because I still feel a little pain in some moves (nothing I can’t handle). At the end of class, Senpai came to me and he told me that he doesn’t want to see me again on “his” dojo. And that sucke because I have to train hard for my exam…. And I totally felt he told me this as a revenge. I agreed with a smile, but in the inside I was furious. He did this because Sensei is in Japan right now.

So that’s the story. I hope I didn’t bore you to death. I neede to vent this up. And I really need some advise. What can I do? I don’t want to go to Sensei again because I feel the waters are too deep as they are right now.

shihonage
07-10-2002, 05:48 PM
Your dojo sounds like an overall bad place.

For some reason I see it as having dark yellow walls with no windows, and brown mats :eek:

morex
07-10-2002, 05:52 PM
Actually it is a great place. Lots of good people indeed. Excep for this guy.

shihonage
07-10-2002, 06:06 PM
"This guy" being the abusive guy, or the Sempai ?

morex
07-10-2002, 06:44 PM
The abusive guy

Arianah
07-10-2002, 07:59 PM
Seems to me you have to inform your sensei about this as well. She needs to know about your sempai's behavior, whether or not you want to be seen as a "tattle tale." If this person is instructing a class, and is acting in such a manner, she definitely needs to know, as his behavior and the way he conducts his class reflects upon her. She may also be the only one that can fix this problem. Is anyone covering the classes that your sensei usually teaches? If so, my advice (and just to tell you right now, I don't know ANYTHING . . . ;) ) would be to go to those classes, miss your sempai's, and tell your sensei when she returns.

Actually, I think that "telling" your sensei is too strong a phrase. You should speak with her, discussing your concerns that telling her about your sempai may further hurt your relationship with him. See what she has to say, and what advice she has, especially since she knows the parties involved. You may never feel comfortable going to that sempai's class again, but regardless, I feel that your instructor needs to know about this, and it isn't as though you are "allowed" to go as it is.
Good luck,
Sarah

Sarah

Thalib
07-10-2002, 08:14 PM
I've heard many stories as well around my country. It splits many dojos and turn one Aikido-gakusha against one another. It makes me sad to see these type of people representing Aikido, but it does happen.

Even though I'm still in 1-kyu, my sensei encourages us to train newcomers. Only by the responsibility of teaching we could learn about ourselves, of course this doesn't apply if one is arrogant. Because of the good guidance we have been receiving over this past 4 years, we stay away from our own over-inflated egos. Of course sometimes we get succumbed into it, but as long as we keep the one point and let everything flow, we return to the main purpose of learning Aikido.

Your story is all too common here in my native country. That's why when I learn the truth about Aikido, it does make me sad to see the situation that we are in right now. But, I will do my best to do the right thing, I'll just lead by example. As long as what I learn and teach is good and truthful, I do believe people will go the right way.

Jucas
07-10-2002, 08:21 PM
I disagree with Sarah. I think the best way to go about this would be to talk with your senpai, the same one who came for "revenge". I am glad you told your sensei about the incident with the abusive partner, and ideally this incident should never have happened. But looking a the situation from all perspectives reveals some interesting thoughts. You just have to realize that it was human nature for your senpai to get upset with you, whether he may or may not be to blaim. It was also human nature for your Sensei to get upset with the Senpai.

Walk up to Senpai, and ask to speak with him briefly. Tell him what happened, and why you did what you did. Tell him you intentions were only for the safety and healthiness of the dojo. And tell that you realize idealy you should have spoken with him first.

I would then speak to your Sensei however you deam necessary. But if you feel like you and your Senpai came to some sort of a understanding, perhaps you could mention something on behalf of the Senpai.

Remember, even though they are higher rank than you doesn't mean they aren't human. Everyone makes mistakes. It sounds like you want to preserve this relationship with your dojo, Sensei and Senpai, so it doesn't hurt to try.

I am glad that the arrogant bastard problem was resolved though.

Things aren't that bad, cheer up mate.

-J

Bruce Baker
07-11-2002, 08:10 AM
It sounds like the street attitude has found its way into the dojo, sad state of affairs indeed.

I sounds like there should be a roundtable of what Aikido is, how the dojo should be run, and the sensei should make it abundantly clear how the dojo is to be run.

I have been in your place when my training partner turns a technique into something else, or when I improvise something because I have missed or lost the original technique being practiced, but never, I mean never do I physically force my training partner into moving or falling.

You have a choice of sitting down with all parties and talking it out with sensei, or taking time off to heal while letting you sensei deal with the problem, or steering clear of the offending parties until they disappear, or you have improved enough to physically counter changes ... or walk away from them.

A lot of choices.

First heal, let your anger go away.

Then decide.

There is more to Aikido than mere physical practice, maybe this is the opportunity to pursue those avenues?

Hang in there, it will all work out.

Misogi-no-Gyo
07-11-2002, 09:49 AM
The other night I went to the other dojo because my exam for 2nd Kyu is approaching. And there is this guy (1st Kyu) who has the most terrible attitude to aikido and life. You know, he is the Steve Seagal meets Jackie Chan kind of dude. In other words he is not polite nor a good teacher. He just wants to learn how to kill or use Aikido to hurt people.

There are always two sides to every story. Then there is the truth. I would advise that you try and consider what the other people involved were/are thinking. After all, it may not be as you think. You may have been barred from the dojo, not for running to your sensei, but for what you did, or did not do on the night of the incident.

Regardless of what you may think is wrong with the other individuals, here are some facts that you may want to consider:


YOU got injured
YOU put yourself into a scenario that you could not handle
YOU can't change others, only yourself.
YOU could have handled things, before, during and after in any number of ways that would have resulted in a different conclusion to this story
YOU are seeing this as a problem, rather than a challenge to rise up and overcome. Then you would be able to say that you have grown in ways that enable you now to handle things of this nature
YOU make of it what you choose to make of it. If you choose not to have power in this situation, then you truly are powerless.
Lastly, if the Dojo-Cho asks you to leave, you leave.


On a personal note, having training exclusively at Seagal Sensei's Aikido Tenshin Dojo until it closed, I take offense at your opening remarks. In spite of having some of the most powerful and dynamic aikido I have had the pleasure to witness, he was not one to ever hurt one of his students. Seagal Sensei, when on the mat is one of the most caring individuals one would ever hope to have the privilege to train with. Although there were injuries at the dojo, they were as a result of the very high level of intensity at which we trained on a daily basis. Jackie Chan, and what he has done for both the martial arts community and the movie industry in China, has elevated him to practically the level of a living saint. What, or who they are in terms of being a teacher is probably very far from your knowledge, and you should reserve your comments for when you are a teacher, and you want to embarrass yourself in front of your students by speaking of things you know little about. Now, if you meant to say that your nemesis at the other dojo was like a combination of characters from both of there movies, that might actually be an accurate statement.

SeiserL
07-11-2002, 10:37 AM
My compliments to all who have responded. Godd ideas. I agree it is good to look at yourself and see what you can learn. Accidents happen. So do bad attitudes, they often come from some inner pain, so you have a chance to [practice forgiveness and compassion. You might want to talk to your Sensei again, this time focus on what you can learn to avoid this happening again. How can you stay off his line of attack, enter and blend with him.

I've only trained with one person whose ego was so mad/sad that he purposely hurt people in training. Sensei eventually asked him to leave becasue no one would train with him. He really didn't have a clue. Felt sorry for him.

Until again,

Lynn

mike lee
07-11-2002, 10:50 AM
Actually, the newspaper office where I currently work has some of the meanest, cruelest backstabbers I've every met in my life. A whole group of bad homobres that are far worse than than the people at any aikido dojo I ever practiced at. Just wanted you to know that to help get things in a little more perspective.

As far as martial arts training is concerned, it's always important to remember that we're preparing for battle. Most real fights on the street are far worse than anything you'll ever experience in the dojo. So we always have to push ourselves to meet any challenge in the dojo, because someday we may face the real thing. WE HAVE TO PUSH OURSELVES HARD! We have to train hard for that day. Think: TERRORISTS ON AN AIRPLANE!

It is said that a gallon of sweat saves a drop of blood. Forget the excuses -- get ready for BATTLE!!!:grr: :grr: :grr:

Leslie Parks
07-11-2002, 11:41 AM
I agree with Lynn, a lot of good ideas offered here.
While some might feel that you didn't need to go to your Sensei directly, it is obvious that this is a person you trust, which makes all the difference. However...it is also a good idea to make an effort to talk to (in this case) the Sempai. And who can say what his motivation is for asking you to leave that dojo?
Now on the 1st kyu guy, who knows. I've never met him. But if you accidentally injure someone, acknowledge their pain!

I do have a dojo suggestion...all injuries must be reported. Anyone who exhibits a pattern of inflicting harm (whether this is broken bones, torn ACLs or "just a wrenched shoulder, I'm taking two weeks off to heal") through maliciousness, egoistic grandstanding or just lack of control should be dealt with by the Sensei in charge.

lpc

Nacho_mx
07-11-2002, 12:09 PM
Hi Morex, I´m a fellow mexican aikido student and I´m glad to hear from someone else! I read your post very carefully and I think you really should report to Tauchi sensei about the sempai´s arrogant attitude. I feel he does not have the right or the authority (in the absence of your sensei) to throw you out of "his" dojo. :mad: His behavior and that of the 1st kyu dude does not belong in aikido. Your sensei was right in suspending him (in my school this is grounds for ejection) and you did nothing wrong!
Also I would like to invite you to train with us as a visitor. I know most aikido associations are at odds here in Mexico, but the F.M.A. welcomes everybody (that goes for you guys and gals in this forum too). If you are interested just contact me. If not, I hope to hear from you in this forum and share our points of view of this wonderful art.

Erik
07-11-2002, 12:42 PM
Originally posted by morex
So we trained Kokyu Nage and he started experimenting. Then when he tried to show off with his mates, he mixed a Judo technique with Kokyu Nage.

and

He invented a move on the fly

Just an aside. If you went to several dojos and asked them to demonstrate kokyu nage, you'd likely get several variations. Maybe it's different in other places but to me kokyu nage has always been a "what was that? I dunno! Kokyu nage? Yea, I think so!"

Otherwise, second most of the rest of the advice but I'd also consider a new home depending on how the sensei ultimately resolves things, assuming it's possible. Something seems broken in that dojo and you don't want that something to be you.

jk
07-11-2002, 08:08 PM
As far as martial arts training is concerned, it's always important to remember that we're preparing for battle. Most real fights on the street are far worse than anything you'll ever experience in the dojo. So we always have to push ourselves to meet any challenge in the dojo, because someday we may face the real thing. WE HAVE TO PUSH OURSELVES HARD! We have to train hard for that day. Think: TERRORISTS ON AN AIRPLANE!

It is said that a gallon of sweat saves a drop of blood. Forget the excuses -- get ready for BATTLE!!!:grr: :grr: :grr:

Please tell me there was plenty of tongue-in-cheek in your post, Mike...otherwise, may I suggest something decaffeinated?

Regards,

Thalib
07-11-2002, 09:35 PM
Mike...otherwise, may I suggest something decaffeinated?

forget decaf... find something more potent... like valium...

George S. Ledyard
07-11-2002, 11:02 PM
Please tell me there was plenty of tongue-in-cheek in your post, Mike...otherwise, may I suggest something decaffeinated?

If you have read Mike other posts it should be clear that he is poking fun at some of us.

Regards,

Irony
07-12-2002, 01:42 AM
I used to train with a guy like that. He would invent his own ways to do things and try to cheat out of techniques. Of course when he did the technique on you he did it as painfully as possible... or "right" as he called it. Luckily he wasn't very good at it. One time I remember he ended up wrapping his legs around my arm, trying to flip me over with his weight.

Not a good move when you're like 5'2" and I'm 6'6". I ended up just holding him in the air for a while until the sensei asked what the hell we were doing. He ended up changing styles to something that would get him a black belt faster, so that solved that for me.

I just had to learn to be very, very aware when I trained with him. I had to be ready to take the strangest and most uncomfortable falls to avoid injury. Kind of helped my ukemi, I guess.

My advice? What everyone else said.

Edward
07-12-2002, 04:45 AM
I guess it all depends on how important is aikido for you. If you really want to practice extra, you will need to talk to the dojo-cho superior and ask him if he has the right to throw you out of the dojo. However, if this man is the head of the dojo, and he expressed clearly his opinion, then better not train there, at least for a while.

As for the guy with an attitude, I think it was not wise to report him to your teacher, as this was inevitably going to create a problem. I would have just avoided training with him for some time untill my negative feelings about it cooled down a bit. Remember that it is not your duty to correct any other students, especially higher ranked.

Cheers,
Edward

Harms
07-12-2002, 07:05 AM
I'm sorry but I can't understand the ones who thinks that he shouldn't have reported this guy. Though we practise to go around problems in aikido this is a question of responsebility. The 1 kyu sempai lacked in responsebility when he didn't check if the poster was hurt and the poster _would_ have lacked in responsebility if he hadn't reported it. He could go back to practise the next day if I understod it correctly but the next uke might not be so lucky if this is pattern that the 1 kyu sempai repeats.

O-senseis first rule for aikido is
"Aikido decides life and death in a single strike, so students must carefully follow the instructor's teaching and not compete to see who is the strongest."

/Tobias Harms

mike lee
07-13-2002, 10:54 AM
forget decaf... find something more potent... like valium...


Please reefer to the "Getting High on the Mat" thread for discussions on drug use.:freaky:

P.S. Although I sometimes have my toungue in cheek, it's not recommended when taking ukemi.