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seele
03-26-2010, 10:05 AM
I've heard "mai" "maimatsu" called out as a way of yielding to an opponent, either as an alternative to tap out of a pin or at the end/loss of a practice bout (I've heard it most often in sports such as kendo). However, I can't seem to find any translations to figure out what this means -- and perhaps I have the assumed translation and romaji incorrect. Any ideas? :confused:

Josh Reyer
03-26-2010, 10:22 AM
Perhaps something got lost in translation. The only words I know for "I yield" in Japanese are "maitta" and it's politer equivalent "mairimashita".

raul rodrigo
03-26-2010, 10:39 AM
"Maitta" is the word used in judo matches.

Don_Modesto
03-26-2010, 11:39 AM
"Maitta" is the word used in judo matches.

When is this used (vs the tap out?)

raul rodrigo
03-26-2010, 11:56 AM
The word "maitta" is used when for one reason or another the man pinned cannot tap, eg, one arm is in juji gatame, the other trapped underneath him or otherwise entangled. Or so my judo referee friend says.

Walter Martindale
03-26-2010, 01:10 PM
both of my judo sensei said it is equivalent to saying "I'm beaten" when you can't tap out... "Maitta"
Walter

seele
03-26-2010, 03:46 PM
Thank you everyone for your replies! I might have missed the last syllable when I actually heard maitta.

Is matte also used in judo? I remember hearing this but I thought matte means to wait, not to yield or stop.

Josh Reyer
03-26-2010, 06:08 PM
Thank you everyone for your replies! I might have missed the last syllable when I actually heard maitta.

Is matte also used in judo? I remember hearing this but I thought matte means to wait, not to yield or stop.

Matte - "Wait."

Maitta - "I yield."

"Matte" wouldn't be used to indicate submission. An imperative form, "Mate" is used in judo as an instruction by the referee, generally meaning "Time (out)."

seank
03-28-2010, 04:12 AM
We used to use matte practicing kumite in Kyokushin when we were injured enough from a kick or punch that we couldn't continue...

I was construed as somewhere between wait and an "...I can't go on"

Stormcrow34
03-28-2010, 02:16 PM
Sometimes, you just can't physically tap, or tap quickly enough, so we use "Maitta" in Yoseikan Budo as a way to verbally tap out. It's just like saying "uncle".

DonMagee
03-29-2010, 06:57 AM
My judo coach has never made the distinction. We use "matte" for stop or tap. If the coach says it, you stop. If you can't tap and you say it, your partner stops.

Walter Martindale
03-29-2010, 02:05 PM
"Chotto matte kudasai" - please wait a moment.
Matte - in judo - pause or wait, or stop fighting (but the match isn't necessarily over yet).
Maitta - I'm beaten, or I give up, or....
Itai, Itai, Itai (ow, ow, ow or hurts, hurts, hurts)

my understanding, anyway..
Walter

phitruong
03-29-2010, 02:30 PM
usually i slapped whatever available and screamed "MA MA!" worked in any language, well most languages. :D

*wouldn't advise staining your gi for good affect. however, if it works go for it!* :)

David Orange
03-30-2010, 09:52 AM
Perhaps something got lost in translation. The only words I know for "I yield" in Japanese are "maitta" and it's politer equivalent "mairimashita".

I've been thinking this comes from "makeru," which is "to be beaten (in a sporting event)" or "to lose (in a sporting event)".

I understood "maeta" to be s shortened form of "maketa", meaning "I lost" (or "you won").

In fact, I think I remember one of the guys telling me that once, a long, long time ago...

Best wishes.

David

Josh Reyer
03-30-2010, 11:36 AM
I've been thinking this comes from "makeru," which is "to be beaten (in a sporting event)" or "to lose (in a sporting event)".

I understood "maeta" to be s shortened form of "maketa", meaning "I lost" (or "you won").

In fact, I think I remember one of the guys telling me that once, a long, long time ago...

Best wishes.

DavidLinguistically, that seems very unlikely. The lost medial "k-" occurs preceding "-i", thus "kaku" -> "kakita" -> "kaita", but not preceding "-e".

From a classical Japanese perspective, "kaku" was called a "four degree verb" (yondan doushi). When attached to the perfective "ta(ri)", it changed to "kaki-ta(ri)", and then thus through linguistic shift became modern "kaita".

What I suspect someone suggested to you was that "makeru" originally came from a verb "maku". Perhaps they then conjectured that from "maku" came "maita", like "kaita" came from "kaku".

However, "maku" was a "shimo-nidan doushi" (lower two-level verb). Which means that when you added the perfective inflection to it, the "maku" changed to "make", thus "maketa(ri)".

What is more likely is that the "surrender, submission" meaning of "mairu" arose from it's use as a word indicating humility in the speaker in relation to the one being spoken to. E.g., if I speak to an equal I say, "Kita" - I came. Speaking to a superior, I say, "Maitta".

Corruption from "maketa" to "maeta" to "maitta" seems to me that it'd be some regional variation that achieved common use. I don't want to dismiss that theory out of hand, but I'll just say I've never seen such a theory in any of my references.

David Orange
03-30-2010, 12:50 PM
Linguistically, that seems very unlikely. The lost medial "k-" occurs preceding "-i", thus "kaku" -> "kakita" -> "kaita", but not preceding "-e"....
Corruption from "maketa" to "maeta" to "maitta" seems to me that it'd be some regional variation that achieved common use. I don't want to dismiss that theory out of hand, but I'll just say I've never seen such a theory in any of my references.

Thinkng more on it, my source was a Saito from Gifu who was uchi deshi at the yoseikan. Everyone was saying maetta! (or maita/maitta!) in practice and I had first learned it in Alabama, but it occurred to me that I didn't really know the meaning of the word and it came up as I conversed with the Gifu man.

And now as I recall, he said that the actual word was magetta, which was from maketta, pronounced magetta and shortened to ma'etta.

I would say it's Shizuoka ben but it seems to be used throughout judo and so would be likely the same word but maybe not the only form of it. I would guess it came to the yoseikan from judo, but whether Saito from Gifu was correct, I cannot guess.

Thanks.

David

David Orange
03-30-2010, 08:10 PM
...whether Saito from Gifu was correct, I cannot guess.

I finally got the word from my wife, who is from Nagano and teaches Japanese elementary students on Saturdays.

She said that makeru means to lose, but mairu means to admit that one has lost. So the correct form of the term we're discussing, according to her, is maitta.

Saito was a good guy, but he wasn't a linguist and maybe I misunderstood.

David

WilliB
04-05-2010, 07:12 AM
I've been thinking this comes from "makeru," which is "to be beaten (in a sporting event)" or "to lose (in a sporting event)".

I understood "maeta" to be s shortened form of "maketa", meaning "I lost" (or "you won").

In fact, I think I remember one of the guys telling me that once, a long, long time ago...

Best wishes.

David

No, definitely not. "Maitta" has nothing to do with makeru; other than for tapping out on the judo mat, the verb maeru is also used for regretting a mistake or apologizing. Not the same as makeru at all.