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Kenshin75
01-31-2002, 02:14 PM
I was wondering if anyone can help me with something. I am checking out the only school that is near where I live. I called them and the told me that the style of Aikido they teach is "Namagashi" ( spelling is probably wrong ).. Anyway my question is has anyone heard of this style? Is it any good? Are there anylink on the web? ( I havent found any )When I did a Google search.. I got Japanese Cakes lol.. anyhow any help would be great as I was to start training again ( after 9 years )..... Also they teach a kenjutsu class with a style called "taki budo" anyone know anything about this?.. Thanks again...

Largo
01-31-2002, 09:47 PM
Tough question... I've never heard of that kind of aikido, but that doesn't mean much. There's tons of weird styles of everything out there.
From past experience with so called "kenjutsu" teachers in the states, I'd be a bit careful. (One was really a tae kwon do teacher who taught "korean" Karate and "korean" kenjutsu. The other was just a flake). Anyways, as with any dojo, just check it out. They should be more than happy to explain who and what they are. Also, most dojos seem to give trial classes or let people sit and watch (if they don`t already encourage or require it).
Good luck

Greg Jennings
01-31-2002, 09:59 PM
Originally posted by Kenshin75
I was wondering if anyone can help me with something. I am checking out the only school that is near where I live. I called them and the told me that the style of Aikido they teach is "Namagashi" ( spelling is probably wrong ).. Anyway my question is has anyone heard of this style? Is it any good? Are there anylink on the web? ( I havent found any )When I did a Google search.. I got Japanese Cakes lol.. anyhow any help would be great as I was to start training again ( after 9 years )..... Also they teach a kenjutsu class with a style called "taki budo" anyone know anything about this?.. Thanks again...

If you could post some more detail, I might be able to help out.

Name of dojo, city, instructor's name, etc.

As is, I can't find anything on a style of aikido that remotely sounds like "Namagashi". Neither can I find anything on a kenjutsu called "taki budo". Are you sure it sounded like "Tah Key"? Are you sure that they described it as "kenjutsu".

Look here for some names that might match the aikido and ken styles, respectively.

http://www.aikidojournal.com/encyclopedia/index.asp
http://koryu.com/guide/ryuguide.html

Best Regards,

Kenshin75
01-31-2002, 11:13 PM
Well the Instructors name is Michael C. Sonntag, he teaches in Hesperia California, and the Dojo name is Ten-chi-do Dojo.

And as far as the sword art being call Kenjutsu.. thats what they are saying it is. He does let you come in to watch... But the thing is I just want to be sure what he teaches is Legit and not a farse. Anyhow, thanks for your help so far... =)

guest1234
01-31-2002, 11:29 PM
One thing you might be able to do to get an idea of how this dojo compares, find a somewhat larger city that is not too far from you, and look in the dojo finder on this web to see if they have any dojos. Visit the local place, then (depending on your age) get a ride/drive yourself to the other dojos and compare, then go back and revisit the local place.

Hesperia sounds familiar to me, I'm from So Cal... is it in the southern part of the state? If so, and you're not of an age that still makes Moms nervous, you might be able to visit Las Vegas for the Expo, and have some really high standards to compare to the local talent...at any rate, in California there are lots of Aikido dojos, so hopefully some not so far away that you can't at least use them to compare, even if they are too far to train regularly.

guest1234
01-31-2002, 11:52 PM
I took the liberty of checking out the dojo listings...if I am recalling the drive along 15, you are near an old AF base in the desert...there are dojos listed for Apple Valley (not as close, I know, but something to compare)...and also Riverside and Claremont. Too far for everyday for most folks taste, but you might at least visit for comparison, and consider for seminars...I personally don't know any of them, but the Claremont one is a 'big name' that even I've heard of... doesn't really answer your question of 'is he legit?' but that may be hard to tell without visiting...at least if you hit several places you'll know if he is like other 'brand names' (ASU, Yosinkan, etc)

Kenshin75
02-01-2002, 12:04 AM
Yeah Im In SoCal... Actually Applevalley Is not "to" far.. Im taking a few classes at VictorValleyCommunityCollege right now.. ( and Im 27.. So Id drive myself.. =).. )... also what is the Seminar in LasVegas your talking about. ( when, where, how much.. ).. one other thing.. Ive taken Aikido before ( many years ago ) So I kinda know the basics as far as what it looks like... So comparing might be kinda hard... Its not so much, does he know the moves ( any "joe" can learn moves from a video ), but Is it a Established Style, and can he express it compleatly to his students.... But So far from everyones replys... It does not seem to be an established style ( since no one has heard of it before ) So I may just need to look elsewere.. or just forget about it.. =(

guest1234
02-01-2002, 12:24 AM
I knew you'd said you'd done Aikido before, but not knowing how old your were, you could have been recalling Aikido as seen through the eyes of a six year old, which might not be accurate...:D

Since you already know what you want in an instructor, why not just check him out? Who cares if anyone else knows him, or if he is an independent? Many of the really big names today, when they first left the Aikikai, were just one sensei with one dojo...this could be your chance to get in on the ground floor;) Needless to say, I don't care much about name recognition...but I do know that Aikido, as long as I'm learning, even if it is not exactly what I want, is better than none at all.

As for the lack of 'brand name' recognition: my first sensei had started his own organization, when I was there I think 2 dojos, now I think I hear he has 3 or 4...and I'd bet no one would recognize the name of the organization. But to watch him, you'd know right away he trained his students in a combination of Yoshinkai and a dash of Chiba-style Aikikai (I will always treasure the fact that at my second dojo, one of the yudansha asked me after a weapons class if I'd trained under Chiba Sensei...) Sometimes the 'store brands' are great bargins.

The expo (and I get absolutely no kick back here) can be found at http://www.aikidojournal.com/expo/pub.asp (I hope). And check out Claremont's web page, they are usually hosting Ikeda Sensei or Saotome Sensei, or someone great to see, quite often I think... hope to run into you someday on the mat....

nikonl
02-01-2002, 04:51 AM
y dont u use the dojo search on aikiweb?

Kenshin75
02-01-2002, 03:49 PM
Originally posted by nikon
y dont u use the dojo search on aikiweb?

I have.... It returns no information, as far as my question went...;)

Greg Jennings
02-01-2002, 03:54 PM
Originally posted by nikon
y dont u use the dojo search on aikiweb?

Well! That's a great first start. Keep trying!

Best,

Greg Jennings
02-01-2002, 04:08 PM
Originally posted by Kenshin75
Well the Instructors name is Michael C. Sonntag, he teaches in Hesperia California, and the Dojo name is Ten-chi-do Dojo.

And as far as the sword art being call Kenjutsu.. thats what they are saying it is. He does let you come in to watch... But the thing is I just want to be sure what he teaches is Legit and not a farse. Anyhow, thanks for your help so far... =)

I can't find anything on Sonntag or Ten-chi-do.

I did find the following searching for "hesperia aikido":
-----------------------------------
Wabukan Dojokarate & Aikido
11908 Mariposa Rd # 4 Hesperia USA
760/244-5756
-----------------------------------


I then did a reverse telephone lookup on the given number and got:
-----------------------------------
Mary E Pavlinik
9429 Pecan Ave
Hesperia, CA 92345-6326
(760)244-5756
-----------------------------------

I then did a Switchboard look up on martial arts dojo in Hesperia and struck pay dirt:
-----------------------------------
Ten-Chi DO Aikido
10232 I Ave
Hesperia, CA 92345-5469
Phone: (760)956-3875
-----------------------------------

Your guess is as good as mine as to what that means.

---

I concur with Colleen that being independent certainly doesn't imply a low quality of dojo. My own dojo was independent for years.

Given all that I've heard, though, I'd check more closely.

In fact, I'll try to get them a call, ask some questions and post back.

Best Regards,

Kenshin75
02-01-2002, 04:12 PM
Well, let me first say..Thanks for all your help. I was reading in a different forum about how when the the student breaks away from the Instructer, sometimes they create a new "Style" so as to differentiate themselfs from thier teacher. I didnt realize that there were so many Offshots in aikido. That is probably all this is, and I might not have anything to worry about as far as legitimacy goes. As far as information on the net.... there is nothing, but that dosnt worry me anymore..:) I just want to train again, because when I think.. " If I would have stayed in it when I started " ( which was 9 years ago ) " I would have been, fairly good by now. :D ... Anyhow thanks again... And take care.

Erik
02-01-2002, 04:17 PM
Originally posted by Kenshin75
The Dojo name is Ten-chi-do Dojo.

Are you sure that's not a style? All I could find on Ten Chi Do is the following:

This is an eclectic martial art, blending Karate, Kung Fu, Kali (Escrima), Silat, Uo Tu Do, Boxing, and Jujitsu. Students learn a broad range of fighting techniques, including weapons, punching, kicking, trapping, escaping, holding, grappling, and throwing in a vigorous workout.

http://www.ajjf.org/dojos/kodenkan/classes.html

Wait, hold on, got em, maybe. Is this them?

http://www.sankaidojo.com/

These folks have a dojo in Hesperia, list Aikido in the grocery list of arts and are linked from the aajf page above.

Erik
02-01-2002, 04:19 PM
Hmmmm, Greg and I seem to have been doing the same thing at the same time.

Kenshin75
02-01-2002, 04:36 PM
Wait, hold on, got em, maybe. Is this them?
http://www.sankaidojo.com/


No thats a different Dojo thats out here.:)

Ten chi, as far as I can tell is a pretty "generic" name... when I use a Japanese to English Dictionary it tells me..

TenChi- Heaven and earth, the world, nature.

But As I said before.. you all have educated me to the fact that the name of the style is not that important, due to students differentiating themselfs from their Instructors.. ( this and other forums )

Thanks...



:ai: :ki: :do:

Erik
02-01-2002, 05:38 PM
Originally posted by Kenshin75
No thats a different Dojo thats out here.:)


I just did a smart pages look up and found them both.

Ten Chi is a very common variant, so it's probably not surprising that someone came up with it for the name of their art. There's even a throw named after it.

One interesting thing though. Searching for hesperia over on aikidofaq.com came up with wabukan@earthlink.net = Sankaidojo.com. Of course, I don't know what wabukan means.

Erik
02-01-2002, 05:50 PM
Never mind, I found the Wabukan.

Wabukan
Address: Private lessons; Apple Valley CA 92308
Phone: (760) 247-3994
Fax: (760) 247-5579
Instr: Tony Kull, 3rd dan
Email: wabukan@earthlink.net
Style: Yoshinkan
Updated: 17. Jan, 2001

Sigh, I should have been a detective, albeit, probably a bad one.

guest1234
02-01-2002, 05:53 PM
Yep, nice thing about California (and it's unofficial annex of Seattle)...you can't swing a , uh, oh:) , jo without hitting an Aikido dojo...

Next time I feel the urge to train when driving from LV to LA, I'll know where to stop:D

That might be an interesting scavenger hunt, bringing back handouts from a certain number of different style dojos...:confused:

Erik
02-01-2002, 05:57 PM
Originally posted by ca
That might be an interesting scavenger hunt, bringing back handouts from a certain number of different style dojos.

Ha! Take about 2 hours round these and you'd rack up 15 or more aikido styles and many 1,000's of dan ranks.

I'm going to leave now and do a careful search for a life. I'm sure I left it around here someplace but where?

Kenshin75
02-01-2002, 05:59 PM
Again spelling could be wrong.. but this is what I found out...

Nama - raw(a-no), draft(beer),unprocessed.

Gashi - Drawing paper, painter, artist, starvation, congratulations, greeting.

Gachi - Artistry, good taste, elegance, grace.

Hmm... Oh the posibilitys...:)

Greg Jennings
02-01-2002, 09:23 PM
Originally posted by Erik
Hmmmm, Greg and I seem to have been doing the same thing at the same time.

Well, you know. Great minds and all that. ;)

Best,